The female condition, illustrated in letter and example

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The female condition, illustrated in letter and example

1LolaWalser
Editado: Jun 22, 2012, 10:46 pm

Trying to state what underlies "the female condition" in this world, as mildly as possible: being a woman is (considered) less good than being a man. Women are (considered) less good than men. Women are less, period.

I don't go out of my way to seek evidence--I'm a woman, I've collected a lifetime of it, globally. I don't need reminders either, and I'm no masochist--but they are everywhere. For example, reading Ryszard Kapuscinski's The shadow of the sun, a collection of his journalism from Africa, there's this passage (the time is 1988, the place somewhere in Uganda):

It is the local custom for women, when they see a man walking toward them, to move to the side, kneel, and wait on their knees until he approaches. He greets them, and in response to this they inquire whether there is anything they can do for him. If he answers 'Nothing', they wait until he passes, and only then rise and go on their way. Similar scenes were repeated later, as I sat with Cuthbert on a bench in front of his house: passing women came up to us, knelt, and silently waited. Sometimes my host, busy talking, failed to notice them. They would continue to wait, motionless, until he finally greeted them and wished them farewell, at which point they would get up and walk away.


This thread for that.

Occasionally I run across people (so far, all have been men) who either pretend to be or genuinely are utterly ignorant of what it means to be born a woman. If you tell them we exist in a fog of systemic and systematic prejudice, that we are universally despised and liable to be assaulted in any number of ways by any number of agents,* because of a biological fatality, a basic biological fact of who we are, something utterly out of our power, they don't understand.

*To illustrate what I mean, which is not just physical attack--my mother walks into a car repair shop with a male friend. The car dude ignores my mom and addresses the man, although my mom says Hi and starts on all the rest. As it happens, the male friend has a major car phobia, has never touched the wheel, let alone held a license. Cars are boxes on round things that get you from point A to point B, by God's grace, as far as he's concerned. My mom's gone through a stable of Morrises and Fiats since age 20 and knows her way around a repertory of car problems. Granted, she's no tomboy--always well dressed, pretty, old school feminine. But even after it's made clear who's the client, the car dude addresses the man, not her, and gives her a dirty look when they leave.

This sort of thing, that happens because of the most basic fact of one's biology (as opposed to any number of reasons that may be derived from our fascinatingly complex, inimitable personalities), happens most often to women (and blacks--the only other category of humans routinely discriminated against based on a basic biological fact). It's not a rape, or even a verbal curse, but it's nevertheless something that puts a woman in her place, which is down, kneeling, silent.

2Booksloth
Jun 25, 2012, 7:14 am

Excellent post! Some years ago, during a Great Book Purge, I decided I was never going to get round to The Shadow of the Sun and passed it on, unread, to a friend. How I wish I still had it now!

In some ways I feel the advances that have been made so far put us at a disadvantage with many men in our own cultures (and, I'm sad to say, an awful lot of yonger women who seem to think feminism is all about being able to wear a push-up bra) because they understand a little about the things women fought for a hundred years ago and assume the battle has been won and often, in fact, that women now have the upper hand (ha!) It can be tough trying to explain why the fight is for all women everywhere. Not just that, but I'm not sure many of them understand how easy it would be at this stage for all those gains to be lost. Watch this space, during these economic times, for encouragement that women/mothers should return to a traditional stay-at-home role, thus freeing up jobs for the boys. With the governemnt we have at present in the UK it can only be a matter of time.

3LolaWalser
Jun 25, 2012, 11:31 am

Kapuscinski's book is excellent. He combines somehow a completely impersonal tone with the ability to wrench your guts without any histrionics or sermonising. Only the last essay is different--I suppose as a farewell to his work and life--a direct plea for engagement with Africa's problems.

Women, by the way, are hardly mentioned in any context, the bit I quoted is unusual. That too is an indication of their position, invisibility and insignificance--a white male reporter could spend forty years travelling all over Africa and only ever dealing, interviewing and meeting with men--you know, about the serious business of life, politics and governance. Presumably he bought a piece of cassava or something else from some woman here and there.

While I'm very glad to be living now and not in some earlier period, advances are spotty, narrow (in geographical and social sense), only relative and incredibly fragile. I've been looking at pictures from Egypt yesterday and today--not a single female face in those howling crowds. It bothers me. Yes, I know "the Arab street" (that very same Egyptian one too), its nature and perils. But when the first wave formed, tossing out Mubarak, women were there too.

It will be a miracle if things remain stagnant under a Muslim Brother, forget about advancement. Like the seven (7) female delegates out of 500+ in the parliament. Who were elected under Mubarak. We'll see how the new old boy does.

I thought about quoting a bit from Tigers are better-looking, a collection of stories by Jean Rhys I finished the other day, but I may as well recommend the whole book. I must warn, it's depressing, but Rhys was a fine writer, and fine writing rewards even when it depresses. ;) Her themes, the incidents in life of poor, desperate women, reminded me of Katherine Mansfield, although she doesn't have Mansfield's power of imagination, probing empathy, or that sheer gorgeous language.

But the most striking thing--what separates her from Mansfield and everyone else in that period, what is truly her own--is her tremendous bitterness about what I called the female condition. And one must understand that Rhys lived and loved a lot (even measured only by attempts at marital bliss--three marriages), worked as a chorus girl, fashion model etc. This is not the commonly sneered-at bitterness of a wallflower, the ugly spinster "nobody wanted". This is the pus and bile of terrible old wounds constantly reopened, of dignity constantly humiliated, self-worth questioned.

A girl's own story.

4LolaWalser
Out 25, 2012, 12:55 pm

So I pick up Rousseau's Politics and the arts, (Letter to M. d'Alembert on the theatre), at the end of a tiring day, being in the mood to read about--as I vaguely thought--the stage, maybe the political use of theatre in the 18th century--what did I know, going by the title.

Imagine my surprise when the meat of the text turned out to be a 100+ page tirade about the need to keep women OFF the stage--the stage in every sense, from theatrical to political to metaphorical. The ideal woman as envisaged by the Taliban, basically--"modest" unto invisibility.

I haven't read much of Rousseau--The confessions; The new Heloise, some political theory, and I don't recall having come across these views before, certainly not expressed this bluntly.

A few quotations, from a stream of nostalgic hankering after the good old ancient custom (Greek and Roman, when women kept to their (fire)place), opprobrium cast at actresses and any and all uppity women making their way in life "among men", and general self-contradictory and hypocritical notions--Rousseau was an avid theatre-goer, but a theatre is nevertheless a terrible thing; women's province is Love, but then again they can't love; women are stupid, but then again relentlessly "sensible" etc.

Classic Misogyny 101.

It is possible that there are in the world a few women worthy of being listened to by a serious man; but, in general, is it from women that he ought to take counsel, and is there no way of honoring their sex without abasing our own?


The man can be audacious, such is his vocation; someone has to declare. But every woman without chasteness is guilty and depraved, because she tramples on a sentiment natural to her sex. {...} Even if it could be denied that a special sentiment of chasteness was natural to women, would it be any the less true that in society their lot ought to be a domestic and retired life, and that they ought to be raised in principles appropriate to it? If the timidity, chasteness and modesty which are proper to them are social inventions, it is in society's interest that women acquire these qualities; they must be cultivated in women, and any woman who disdains them offends good morals.


Women, in general, do not like any art, know nothing about any, and have no genius. They can succeed in little works which require only quick wit, taste, grace, and sometimes even a bit of philosophy and reasoning. They can acquire science, erudition, talents, and everything that is acquired by dint of work. But that celestial flame which warms and sets fire to the soul, that genius which consumes and devours, that burning eloquence, those sublime transports which carry their raptures to the depths of hearts, will always lack in the writing of women; their works are all cold and pretty as they are; they may contain as much wit as you please, never a soul; they are a hundred times more sensible than passionate. They do not know how to describe nor to feel even love.


5justjukka
Dez 15, 2012, 2:31 am

In the film adaptation of The Hobbit, an original character was created to fill a void.  This character is an elf, which some people feel there wasn't enough elf presence in the book, so this is okay.  When it was revealed that the elf was going to be a woman, that's when people got ugly about it.

6LolaWalser
Dez 16, 2012, 9:57 am

So what happened?

I was annoyed the other day at the news of what Disney's doing to Andersen's The Snow Queen. My favourite of all Andersen's tales. Apparently they changed the story so that the protagonist isn't anymore the little girl, Gerda, they saddled her with a brawny male sidekick, and the two of them set off to rescue Gerda's "sister". Fuck you, Disney, from here to eternity.

How many stories, and classic stories at that, are there where a female character has an adventure on her own, and one where SHE's the independent, active agent, and a saviour, of a boy no less? Yeah, let's ruin all three of 'em!

7LolaWalser
Fev 26, 2013, 11:14 am

I realise that if we catalogued EVERY insult to women in the media we'd sink the Internet in a day, but some things just... how do they even happen?

The Onion's apology for its Quvenzhané Wallis tweet – well, this is awkward

Consider that this happened in an evening when the Oscar host Seth MacFarlane cracked a gag that cast George Clooney as Humbert to Wallis's unwitting Lolita, and it starts to look less like a baffling lapse, and more like frat Hollywood asserting itself over a small black girl.

8LolaWalser
Fev 26, 2013, 11:21 am

But the comments to that article... oh, mofos, if only your balls were anywhere close to my foot...

9LolaWalser
Jan 15, 2014, 4:11 pm

I pick up a book about perception in art (Visual thinking), skim the preface, and bam! first chapter's first sentence:

Reasoning, says Schopenhauer, is of feminine nature: it can give only after it has received.


Really, Prof. Arnheim? There was NO OTHER WAY for you to express your idea? You just HAD to go for a fucking misogynistic quotation from the fucking Pope of Womanhate (didn't prevent him from buying sex from teenagers to his death though) right off the bat?

Cognition is dependent on external stimuli. There, how hard is that?

I bet the asshole thought he was being cute too... (copyright date 1969).

10justjukka
Jan 17, 2014, 11:34 pm

That is painful.

Lola, have you seen Frozen?  They have the decency to say it is loosely based on The Snow Queen, so I bear them no ill will for being derivative.  The movie actually surprised me.

11LolaWalser
Jan 19, 2014, 11:04 am

No, I haven't, and I don't think I will unless I'm stuck on a plane or something. If the story were wholly original it would've been one thing, but this way it just irks me too much.

I haven't seen any Disney "princess" movie since... Mulan. The first one.

What's with the blasted verb titles, though? I keep thinking "Froyo".

12justjukka
Jan 20, 2014, 1:00 am

I hate it when Disney classifies Mulan as a princess.  In any case, the movie borrows a couple elements from the snow queen, but that's about it.  It's as derivative as a friend of mine reading A Wizard of Earthsea and using "true names" for certain characters.

13LolaWalser
Fev 19, 2014, 6:10 pm

Browsing in a bookshop the other day, an interesting-looking spine caught my eye: H. G. Wells, "Little wars". Never heard of it, but then Wells was so prolific, I'm probably ignorant of half the stuff he published.

I flipped through it--how interesting, a children's book, never heard that Wells had written something for children... and then... the title page:

LITTLE WARS

A Game for Boys
from twelve years of age to one hundred
and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl
who likes boys' games and books


The book I bought is a facsimile edition from Arms and Armour Press of the 1913 original.

14FrancoisTremblay
Editado: Fev 21, 2014, 3:48 am

Only the most intelligent sort of girl would be interested in war, obviously. The stupider sort would remain only interested in such trivial and silly things as science, art, or helping other people. They just can't understand the high sophistication of shooting people (figurines) with (toy) guns and missiles. WOMEN, AM I RIGHT??

15LolaWalser
Editado: Fev 21, 2014, 11:06 am

The war theme doesn't bother me; girls fight too. What bothers me is defining intelligence as a basic trait of the male gender, which only some ("those more intelligent girls") may exhibit, and that specifically if they think or behave like boys. Intelligence is considered a gendered, gender-defining trait: men have it, women don't.

I posted in more detail about this example here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/151833#4556854

16overlycriticalelisa
Fev 21, 2014, 3:37 pm

>15 LolaWalser:

it's not what you were driving at but it also reminded me of how many adventure stories are out there "for boys," across genres. girls who want girl protagonists that aren't riding horses or taking care of horses or putting on make up or being chased by a vampire or hoping that boy asks her to the dance are often out of luck. "a game for boys" pisses me off on lots of levels. and a new one for me as i'm used to being pissed off for women, but not for men - as the mother of a 2.25 year old boy, who by virtue of being a boy doesn't gravitate to war games and who i hope won't.

17LolaWalser
Fev 21, 2014, 7:36 pm

#16

Going by several discussions in different threads, I'm beginning to think there's a real mania for gendering in the American or maybe Anglo society! There was the "pink and blue baby clothes/children's toys" conversation, the male/female erotica, just now I saw a post about judging gender of the author by their writing, and I was shocked the other day when a young LTer (she may be in high school, if I interpreted the grade correctly) mentioned YA lit in some school shelved on separate, labelled "Girls" and "Boys" shelves. In 2014, in the United States!

I wonder whether this type of thing isn't driven by marketing and consumerism more than anything else, at least in modern society, right now.

18LucindaLibri
Fev 22, 2014, 8:13 pm

>6 LolaWalser: For a better reworking of The Snow Queen, read Breadcrumbs by Anne Ursu . . .

Thanks for this thread . . . I agree the examples are endless . . .

On a more hopeful note, this afternoon I went to a meeting where the keynote speaker was Col Eileen Collins, retired astronaut, shuttle commander . . . I was thrilled at how many families brought their young girls to hear her speak and then waited in line to get her autograph. She spent extra time with the girls, asking them about their favorite classes in school, etc. Col Collins is a few years older than I am (mid-50s), but though I was totally into the whole space program, it would have never occurred to me (when I was growing up) that women could be astronauts! Happy to say that isn't true today . . . though a recent brou-haha on SF forums indicates there are still many men out there who not only believe women shouldn't be astronauts, they don't think they should write science fiction either! FFI: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/influential-science-fiction-writers-discriminate-agains...

19.Monkey.
Fev 23, 2014, 4:21 am

>17 LolaWalser: It is definitely huge on the part of the companies. Lego spent six million dollars (if I recall right, it's been a number of months) doing "research" on how to get girls into Legos, and their "result" was, make pink & purple beauty parlors with shapely figurines! Not to incorporate more colors of the rainbow into buckets of legos, not to add "girly" businesses to Lego City, but to make an entirely separate line of ridiculous "girl" Legos that nobody wants anything to do with. And then things like cars and action figures are all commercials with boys being boys playing rough etc. Heaven forbid we girls get the idea we might like anything like that!

I am astounded by separate shelving for boys and girls in a library! That is ludicrous!!

>18 LucindaLibri: Sci-fi has a long tradition of being a boys only club. There are plenty of asshats with that attitude who will never change. Here's hoping as the older generations move on, and the new ones move up, that the attitude will start to thin out more.

When I was in jr high Sally Ride came to visit my general area to speak at this college prep school, and my class was offered the opportunity for some of us to go, there were like 5 or 10 spots or something, people could write an essay on why they wanted to. I liked astronomy some but I'd never been into the astronaut thing, and definitely wasn't into writing any extra unnecessary papers, so I declined the chance. But my one teacher thought I was a good student and that it would be a good thing for me to attend, so I got to go anyhow, lol. I remember being impressed by her, first American woman in space (and still the youngest American in space, too), very smart, friendly, well-spoken.

And I see now she "was the president and CEO of Sally Ride Science, a company she co-founded in 2001 that creates entertaining science programs and publications for upper elementary and middle school students, with a particular focus on girls," which doesn't surprise me that she created, very nice, though. Her former partner now serves as Chair of the Board.

20Jesse_wiedinmyer
Fev 23, 2014, 10:01 am

Sci-fi has a long tradition of being a boys only club. There are plenty of asshats with that attitude who will never change. Here's hoping as the older generations move on, and the new ones move up, that the attitude will start to thin out more.

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/sfwa-sexism-sci-fi-nebulas-mary-kowal/

21southernbooklady
Fev 23, 2014, 10:20 am

>19 .Monkey.: Lego spent six million dollars (if I recall right, it's been a number of months) doing "research" on how to get girls into Legos, and their "result" was, make pink & purple beauty parlors with shapely figurines!

Oh my god. I was SUCH a Lego freak when I was a little girl. But I wanted the spaceship sets and the rocket sets!

Legos were one of the few approved toys my parents would buy us. But after a few days spent building whatever the set was supposed to make, we would dump all the pieces in a big chest with all the other sets we had, and really we spent hours creating these extensive and complicated cityscapes that used up every piece in the box.

Pink and Purple were not options and they were not missed.

22.Monkey.
Fev 23, 2014, 11:01 am

>21 southernbooklady: I wasn't a major Lego fan mostly because I could never come up with what to do with them aside of making the little kits. I'd just build some sort of house-ish structure and be at a loss. But I liked them, and I always despised pink, so I certainly didn't miss it. But there's no reason they couldn't add all the colors they sell in the special Lego stores into the mixes, the pinks, purples, teals, and so forth. They shouldn't have to be special buys!

I think if the whole Lego City thing had been around back then I'd have enjoyed them more, because there's real structures involved with sets and the minifigs to play with in them, that was more my style, lol. It's idiotic that they didn't simply add more options there, so there could be both "hero" sets (the firefighters, policemen, etc) as well as other businesses you'd actually have in a city. That they felt the need to segregate off into an entirely unique (and utterly craptastic) "girl" line... ugh!

23overlycriticalelisa
Fev 23, 2014, 2:05 pm

>17 LolaWalser:

the gendering that's happening, at least in american culture, really is pretty incredible. still, i'm floored by a school library separating books into "girl" and "boy" books. there was a great thread here earlier that mentioned a journalist's article that "de-gendered" book covers - since the covers of many books seem to have more to do with the gender of the author (and therefore apparently the target audience) than the content/context of the book itself.

from a marketing perspective, what's interesting to me is that i feel like it is the marketing that drives a lot of this, but that consumers don't want it on the whole. girls want more options in their books and in their toys, and boys (at least the young ones) do, too. parents want more options for their kids. it's mostly just these companies that are putting out product who are controlling this, to everyone's detriment. including themselves - if they offered less gendered toys they'd sell even more. (some company recently made those traditionally girly toy kitchens in more boy colors and they were super popular, i can't remember the specifics...)

(it's not just gender stuff, although that's where my focus on issues tends to lie. we are completely obsessive about labeling people in general. gender, race, sexuality...anything we can't label at a glance makes us uncomfortable. it's ridiculous.)

24overlycriticalelisa
Fev 23, 2014, 2:10 pm

>17 LolaWalser:

the gendering that's happening, at least in american culture, really is pretty incredible. still, i'm floored by a school library separating books into "girl" and "boy" books. there was a great thread here earlier that mentioned a journalist's article that "de-gendered" book covers - since the covers of many books seem to have more to do with the gender of the author (and therefore apparently the target audience) than the content/context of the book itself.

from a marketing perspective, what's interesting to me is that i feel like it is the marketing that drives a lot of this, but that consumers don't want it on the whole. girls want more options in their books and in their toys, and boys (at least the young ones) do, too. parents want more options for their kids. it's mostly just these companies that are putting out product who are controlling this, to everyone's detriment. including themselves - if they offered less gendered toys they'd sell even more. (some company recently made those traditionally girly toy kitchens in more boy colors and they were super popular, i can't remember the specifics...)

(it's not just gender stuff, although that's where my focus on issues tends to lie. we are completely obsessive about labeling people in general. gender, race, sexuality...anything we can't label at a glance makes us uncomfortable. it's ridiculous.)

25overlycriticalelisa
Fev 23, 2014, 2:22 pm

>21 southernbooklady:

Oh my god. I was SUCH a Lego freak when I was a little girl. But I wanted the spaceship sets and the rocket sets!

well, yes, but you are a lesbian after all.

it's the straight little girls they'd expect to want to play with pink and purple beauty shop legos.

my brother and i used to make hugo lego forts and cityscapes like you're talking about, and then invade/protect them with our g.i. joes and he-man/she-ra toys. yep, i turned out to like girls, too. =)

26LolaWalser
Fev 24, 2014, 2:02 pm

You're welcome, Lucinda.

I've been living in North America (the US and now Canada) for twenty-two years now, but the attitudes toward education of boys and girls, or boys versus girls, as it sometimes seems to be, still manage to surprise me... Well, part of it is probably that in my profession there are so many foreigners, Asians and Europeans mostly, whose experiences seem closer to mine.

The odd thing is that, while neither Asia nor Europe could possibly be considered "more feminist" or woman-friendly, than, say, the US, as far as education is concerned, especially in fields traditionally considered as "male", it seems it is far more common to find Asian and European (maybe especially Eastern European) women with that background than American women.

I'm sure economics play a part--these are demanding but not necessarily (or even usually) very remunerative professions, and education is extremely expensive in the US. That said, it is notable that here exists a lot of "popular opinion" on the incompetence of girls for these professions, a lot of active discouragement, which, to my mind at least and that of non-American colleagues I've talked with, is of different quality and order than the misogyny and obstacles we've encountered growing up.

For instance, most of us didn't know that girls aren't supposed to be good at maths, before coming to the US. Frequently, it was actually women we remembered as being especially mathematically gifted. Again, clearly there might be a bias in a bunch that self-selected to study scientific subjects, but the point is what pressures there existed, what we heard, what was "known" etc.

For China and Russia, poor Communist countries, it is possible that economic pressures, especially after the horribly draining wars, practically demanded that women join the ranks of technicians and technologists. India is a very classist society, with higher education seemingly reserved for a minority, but within that minority there doesn't seem to be an expected difference between boys' and girls' aptitudes for maths and science. (I've met more Indian female mathematicians, economists, statisticians, and computer scientists than any other nationality.) Since these educated Indians frequently aim to get graduate degrees in the West, it is possible that studying in STEM fields is encouraged precisely with this goal in mind.

My point would be that these examples show that the presence of women in STEM fields isn't limited due to some innate incompetence of women for these fields. When women are allowed into or outright forced by circumstance into these fields, they show up and perform. It's simple--when their labour becomes necessary, women are suddenly found to be capable of labour, of any kind. "Suddenly" they can drive, pilot planes, work in factories, shoot guns, be doctors, engineers, agronomists, scientists--whatever is needed... as long as it is needed.

27sweetiegherkin
Fev 24, 2014, 9:24 pm

"Suddenly" they can drive, pilot planes, work in factories, shoot guns, be doctors, engineers, agronomists, scientists--whatever is needed... as long as it is needed.

And whenever it isn't needed anymore, they are supposed just go back to whatever without complaint ... and brainwashed into believing that they were never capable of what they just did.

28Helcura
Fev 26, 2014, 4:40 am

Also, if women actually come to dominate an area it suddenly becomes low status. Religious ministers and family practitioners come to mind as examples.

29overlycriticalelisa
Fev 26, 2014, 11:12 am

or those become "women's professions" like nursing or counseling.

30overlycriticalelisa
Mar 9, 2014, 1:52 pm

just saw this and thought it was relevant to this thread: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/childrens/childrens-industry-news/ar...

31LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 12:28 pm

Philip Wylie's best-selling 1942 book, with annotations from 1955, has the following title on the cover of the Dalkey Archive reprint: "Generation of Vipers, in which the author rails against Congress, the President, professors, motherhood, businessmen & other matters American".

As you can see, one can take warning from this cover alone that some sort of woman-bashing might be expected, so this doesn't count as an example of such instances of randomly encountered misogyny as I've been occasionally noting here before.

Nevertheless, because the book had been so successful for so long (and, although it's currently listed only 147 times here on LT, it has a rating of 4.17--not sure how much if at all my half-star will affect that), I think it's worth mentioning as documentary evidence of the culture of the times and attitudes to women.

By "attitudes to women" I mean less Wylie's own remarkable, strident misogyny, which he deliberately exposed in all its extremity (he did add an annotation in 1955 where he expressed regret for being taken for a misogynist--actually, he says, he loves women more than most men do), than the attitudes of those millions of people who agreed with him, and/or weren't bothered by his arguments. People who hate like he did are few, but apparently those who applaud such hate are very, very many.

Of the eighteen chapters, only one is wholly devoted to destroying women, "Common women" (following the chapter on "Uncommon men"), but the problem--for anyone who wishes, as I don't at this moment, to review the book as a whole--is that far from being isolated from other topics, Wylie's misogyny informs crucially his critique in ALL of them. In brief, and reducing a lot of tedious and obsolete Freudian/Jungian/Adlerian psychologizing, Wylie's basic concept is best understood in the imagery he himself supplies, of the complementary yet antithetical yin and yang, darkness and light, weakness and strength, evil and good--no points for guessing who's good light and strong, and who's evil dark and weak.

He does mention that the "complete" picture would include a white dot within the black, and vice versa--some "good" etc. in women and some "bad" in men--but this ambiguity is paid no more than the occasional lip service, and that drowned out in the repetitions of assault in which "female", "feminine", "woman", "womanish" are used to curse and belittle.

The thing is, and I wonder how any intelligent person could avoid noticing it in himself, to Wylie nothing women could do independently is good. But then, the sort of woman who wants "independent" things, just like the sort of woman--middle-aged, old, lesbian--who has no sex appeal for him or he for her, in Wylie's contradictory taxonomy isn't recognised as a woman at all, he calls them "neuters".

(Nor is that the only dumb paradox in this salad of a book, non sequiturs falling over one another on every page and increasingly as the chapters progress.)

Somehow, for all their intrinsic worthlessness, the women own America, which is a "gynecocracy", ruled by a "masculine matriarchy". What this means, apparently, is that the husbands work for women, and 80% (no source for the number) of all goods of all production are made for the exclusive benefit and enjoyment of women. That soldiers in a training camp somewhere performed a drill in which they spelled out "MOM" on the field, is one kind of proof to Wylie that the "prevalent" (so he says), type of American woman, the idle middle class harpy, puffin with an eye like a hawk, stupid, voracious, silly, without sex appeal but lecherous and so on ad what seemed like infinitum, rules the world.

Perhaps work could improve these monsters? Unfortunately, the only kind of work that Wylie deems women can do is housework, and that, to his endless regret, has been lightened so much, it doesn't perform its previous role of natural selection of "moms" any more.

All mention of women professionals is accompanied by sneering and contempt, unless we count the prostitutes, of whom he's less critical than of ANY other kind of "working girl" or "type" of woman. Women academics are "mustached" i.e. not women at all. He notices the efficiency and success of women in wartime newly employed in factories etc. but disdains both their competence (the dull repetitive work is something that comes to women naturally, that's all they ever do) and their dedication (it won't last). That last point deserves quoting:

But, most likely, after the war the ladies will go back to their clattering cipherdom.(Chapter Five, A specimen American myth)


I want to highlight that Wylie ascribes this (more or less correct, as it turned out) outcome to women themselves. He is absolutely unwilling or incapable to recognise other, external forces affecting our lives. He despises women for not working, but also when they are working. If they are sexually attractive, they are pursuing the "Cinderella" dream and looking to ensnare the 80% goods provider. If they are not sexually attractive, they are repulsive and useless, or perverts and "neuters" (a good looking woman is ruined by too much brains).

The misogyny is, as always, accompanied by freely expressed contempt of male homosexuals, e.g.:

Most of (State Department officials, Washington politicians) are sissies--another product of momism into which I did not bother to go because I thought you knew about it already--and in American statecraft, where you need desperately a man of iron, you often get a nance.


Wylie was very proud of inventing "momism", in one annotation from 1955 he says it has entered the vocabulary "indelibly". It is with great pleasure that I close this post noting that, in fact, it seems to have been very delible indeed, as was this book, stupidly, because not wholly deservingly, sentenced to oblivion by the author's obliviousness to himself.

32LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 12:40 pm

I concentrated on Wylie's attitude to women (and the post got too long on that alone), if anyone is curious about a somewhat larger view, here's Jonathan Yardley's review from 2005 in Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072902124....

It's on the subject of women, though, that Wylie gets himself into the most trouble. In one of the many footnotes to the 1954 edition, he insists that "since I love women more than most men, I believe I love them more deeply and knowingly," but the evidence on the printed page is almost entirely to the contrary. He writes about "the unrealness and infantile unreasonableness of most wives," and a couple of pages later goes right over the top: ". . . the child wife, the infantile personality, the woman who cannot reason logically, the bridge fiend, the golf fiend, the mother of all the atrocities we call 'spoiled children,' the middle-aged, hair-faced clubwoman who destroys everything she touches, the murderess, the habitual divorcee, the weeper, the weak sister, the rubbery sex experimentist, the quarreler, the woman forever displeased, the nagger, the female miser, and so on and so on and so on, to the outermost lengths of the puerile, rusting, raging creature we know as mom and sis."

33LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 12:44 pm

It also has a 3.99 rating on Goodreads, and nothing but glowing reviews (ten in total, but one seems of another book).

I don't like writing reviews, but I'm tempted...

34LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 12:48 pm

I added Yardley's review to the book page, with this snippet:

Picking it up again after four decades, I remembered little about it except (of course) mom and a general atmosphere of splenetic outrage. As it turned out, "Generation of Vipers" did not come through a second reading in very good shape. The spectacle of someone making an absolute fool of himself is always enjoyable, so watching Wylie put himself through these ridiculous paces was amusing, but "Generation of Vipers" is warmed-over H.L. Mencken with only occasional hints of Mencken's wit or perspicacity. Along the way Wylie says a few smart things, but give a chimpanzee 100,000 words and one or two of them are likely, against all odds, to make a bit of sense. Mostly the book is high-octane twaddle, fun to read but incapable of withstanding close scrutiny.


In case anyone messes with it, I want to know what was there.

35LolaWalser
Editado: Jul 24, 2015, 3:23 pm

From an interview of Wylie with Mike Wallace (video included), from 1957:



WALLACE: But, what I'm after... you say there's not such a thing as a man alone, or a woman alone, what I'm after is this: it seems to me that Simone de Beauvoir says, in a sense, much the same thing that you say in your chapter on Momism, and yet she says it with so much more sympathy. You say that you... that you like women, that you love women.

WYLIE: Yeah. I do.

WALLACE: You have sympathy for women, and yet you go after effect, she goes after cause. She tries to find out why, why women are as she says, mutilated by marriage.

WYLIE: Well, I don't believe they are. I believe that what mutilates them, in her sense, is the great... is a parable ageless misunderstanding, since the evolution of man from animals, cultures have pended before they had knowledge of their real anatomy, the real physiology, the real nature of human beings, through the medical and the scientific knowledge that we have. They just assumed from the distance an event between the sexes and the strength of man, that women were inferior. And they've been treated that way ever since. And indeed, our whole... our whole culture assumes that in many senses.

WALLACE: Well then, maybe women are just fighting back with what means are at their disposal...

WYLIE: Well, sure they're fighting back.

WALLACE: Well, then, why don't you say that, and say it with some sympathy, instead of calling them hammerhead sharks, and talk about their stupid veracity, and taking such...

WYLIE: Well, I do sometimes. But I think when you've got an outrageous woman, who fights in a way against which you have no defense, and a great many American women do. Now, just the other day, I had asked for a bill in a hotel, and it was on a little ledge, and I was writing a check, and a woman threw her pocketbook on top of -- a middle-aged woman -- on top of my check, and my bill, and knocked the pen out of my hand, and said, "Please give me my bill." Well, against those women. And any woman that behaves that way, I feel, entitled to act as outrageously as I did as a writer.


Forgot to link: http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/wylie_philip_t.html

ETA: I think Mike Wallace's phrase "stupid veracity" should be (or was, didn't look at the video) "stupid voracity". Somewhere close to where Wylie calls women "hammerhead sharks" he talks about their stupidity, voraciousness etc.

36southernbooklady
Jul 24, 2015, 1:04 pm

>35 LolaWalser: I was writing a check, and a woman threw her pocketbook on top of -- a middle-aged woman -- on top of my check, and my bill, and knocked the pen out of my hand

The horror. The horror.

37LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 1:09 pm

Can we all think about that for a moment?

A strange woman, nobody he knows anything about, does something careless and discourteous--discourteous to him only incidentally, as she doesn't know him either--is impolite, definitely, pushy, maybe--maybe she was angry about something? with the hotel, with the staff?--maybe she didn't mean to knock the pen out of Wylie's hand so much, as to express her rage to the receptionist? (Not a justification, just possible context...)

And THAT woman gets slung into the 100,000 torrent of verbal abuse, and hung as momistic mom (to be differentiated from some other, nice, Wylie-approved moms).

Insane, eh?

But is it uncommon?

I suggest that this is common thinking behind every slam of "uppity" women. How DARE they, the bitches.

38LolaWalser
Editado: Jul 24, 2015, 1:10 pm

>36 southernbooklady:

HA! Great minds x-post alike! :)

39LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 1:20 pm

>36 southernbooklady:

Did you notice that that, apparently, is an example of "an outrageous woman, who fights in a way against which you have no defense"?

Fights? Fights what, against whom, for what?

As Clarice said to Hannibal, what do you see when you turn that gaze on yourself?

40LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 1:23 pm

And yes, "middle-aged". What if she hadn't been middle-aged, what if she'd been a siren? Do THEY "fight"?

No, it's amazing, two sentences and there's a whole textbook in it.

41LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 1:47 pm

A shortish article on Freudian-inspired misogyny of Wylie's times:

When We Hated Mom

In the early 20th century, under the influence of Freudianism, Americans began to view public avowals of "Mother Love" as unmanly and redefine what used to be called "uplifting encouragement" as nagging. By the 1940s, educators, psychiatrists and popular opinion-makers were assailing the idealization of mothers; in their view, women should stop seeing themselves as guardians of societal and familial morality and content themselves with being, in the self-deprecating words of so many 1960s homemakers, "just a housewife."

Stay-at-home mothers were often portrayed as an even bigger menace to society than career women. In 1942, in his best-selling "Generation of Vipers," Philip Wylie coined the term "momism" to describe what he claimed was an epidemic of mothers who kept their sons tied to their apron strings, boasted incessantly of their worth and demanded that politicians heed their moralizing.

Momism became seen as a threat to the moral fiber of America on a par with communism. In 1945, the psychiatrist Edward Strecher argued that the 2.5 million men rejected or discharged from the Army as unfit during World War II were the product of overly protective mothers.

42LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 1:51 pm

Heartbreaking:

"The female doesn't really expect a lot from life," a mother told pollsters from Gallup in a survey in 1962. "She's here as someone's keeper - her husband's or her children's."

43southernbooklady
Jul 24, 2015, 1:52 pm

>39 LolaWalser: what do you see when you turn that gaze on yourself?

Actually, that whole exchange between Wylie and Wallace you quote had me thinking of the way men project their fears onto women. Wylie sounded slightly hysterical, and believe me I'm conscious of the irony that word invokes. But it is all I could think of when he started talking about "fighting in a way against which you have no defense" and the dither he gets into because some woman banged into his stuff and made him drop his pen.

44LolaWalser
Jul 24, 2015, 2:13 pm

>43 southernbooklady:

Yeah, there was some primo psychological mess roiling in that head. Irony galore. I think that's a reaction of someone with a deep and long-standing resentment of women. It's not normal.

45LolaWalser
Editado: Ago 12, 2015, 12:00 pm

When I was at Cornell, I was rather fascinated by the student body, which seems to me was a dilute mixture of some sensible people in a big mass of dumb people studying home economics, etc., including lots of girls. I used to sit in the cafeteria with the students and eat and try to overhear their conversations and see if there was one intelligent word coming out. You can imagine my surprise when I discovered a tremendous thing, it seemed to me.
I listened to a conversation between two girls, and one was explaining that if you want to make a straight line, you see, you go over a certain number to the right for each row you go up, that is, if you go over each time the same amount you go up a row, you make a straight line. A deep principle of analytic geometry! It went on. I was rather amazed. I didn't realize the female mind was capable of understanding analytic geometry.
She went on and said, "Suppose you have another line coming in from the other side and you want to figure out where they are going to intersect." Suppose on one line you go over two to the right for every one you go up, and the other line goes over three to the right for every one it goes up, and they start twenty steps apart, etc.--I was flabbergasted. She figured out where the intersection was! It turned out that one girl was explaining to the other how to knit argyle socks.
I, therefore, did learn a lesson: The female mind is capable of understanding analytic geometry. Those people who have for years been insisting (in the face of all obvious evidence to the contrary) that the male and female are equal and capable of rational thought may have something. The difficulty may just be that we have never yet discovered a way to communicate with the female mind. If it is done in the right way, you may be able to get something out of it.----Richard Feynman, The pleasure of finding things out

46southernbooklady
Ago 12, 2015, 12:44 pm

Of course, men have to convince us that it's worth the effort of communicating with the male mind.

47LolaWalser
Ago 12, 2015, 12:53 pm

Hans Selye, born in 1907, was one of the pioneers in biological stress research. A few days ago I picked up his book From dream to discovery: on being a scientist, books about "how to science" being a mini-collecting interest of mine...

It dates from 1964, so I wasn't surprised nor especially irritated by the constant "he & his & him-ing", but just how far beyond a mere figure of speech it really goes was clear a few pages in, with the chapter on "Who Should Do Research?", and the section "Personality Types". These Selye classifies as follows, labelling and then describing (I give only the beginning of descriptions):

(I) THE DOERS

1. The fact collector (He is interested only in the discovery of new facts...) 2. The gadgeteer (He constantly tries to improve apparatus or techniques...

(II) THE THINKERS

1. The bookworm (He reads voraciously and may accumulate encyclopedic knowledge...) 2. The classifier (As a child, he used to collect stamps...) 3. The analyst (As a boy, he took his wrist watch apart... 4. The synthetist (As a child, he liked to build card houses...)

(III) THE EMOTIONALISTS

1. The big boss (As a child, he was the captain of the team--the winning team...) 2. The eager beaver (He is so anxious to get there fast that he...) 3. The cold fish (He is the ostentatiously unemotional skeptic...) 5. The narcissist (...he stand in constant awe of his own talents...) 6. The aggressive-arguer (In school he was the smart aleck who knew it all...) 7. The credit-shark (his main preoccupation is with getting his name on as many papers as possible...) 8. The saint (...he is the Knight of the Holy Grail...) 9. The saintly one (He imitates the real Saint...) 10. The goody-goody (In grade school he was the teacher's pet...)

I've reserved the gem, the "Emotionalist" number Four, for a full quote:

4. The dessicated-laboratory-female

She is the bitter, hostile, bossy and unimaginative female counterpart of the Cold Fish. Usually a technician, she rarely gets past the B.Sc., or at most, the M. Sc. degree, but she may be a Ph.D., less commonly an M.D. In any event, she assumes dominant position in her own group, has very little understanding of human frailties among her subordinates and almost invariably falls in love with her immediate boss. She may be very useful in performing exacting, dull jobs herself and in enforcing discipline upon others, but tends to create more tension and dissatisfaction than the results warrant. Some women make excellent scientists, but this type never does.


Note that while all other "types" are identified by labelling some quirk of character or habit, this one--and only this one--is pure gender. The collector collects, the bookworm reads, the analyst dissects, the boss bosses etc.--but the "dessicated-laboratory-female" just IS female.

Worth noting is Selye's "ideal" scientist (The Ideals): 1. Faust: the ideal teacher and chief 2. Famulus: the ideal pupil and assistant.

Both at length described and eulogized in male gender... of course. :)

48LolaWalser
Ago 12, 2015, 12:54 pm

>46 southernbooklady:

Yeah, Feynman wouldn't have been my go-to person on relations between the sexes...

It wasn't exactly news to me, I've read his biographical books and the sexism is clear enough, but it's worse distilled to a principle like here (rather than connected to anecdotes of personal life).

49LolaWalser
Editado: Ago 12, 2015, 1:33 pm

What amuses me greatly about Selye's classification is that he had found in his environment so many more types who, by his lights, SHOULDN'T have been doing science than those who should.

50southernbooklady
Ago 12, 2015, 1:14 pm

>49 LolaWalser: There's a kind of personality that just isn't comfortable when things defy labels. They end up have to create more and more labels to make everyone fit into their world view. I just got back from a kind of corporate retreat that was like this. Personality tests and what not. "Oh," they told me, "you're an 'input' person!" Well duh. I like to read. This was not a state secret.

51LolaWalser
Ago 12, 2015, 1:15 pm

What the hell is an "input" person.

52southernbooklady
Ago 12, 2015, 1:55 pm

That's what I asked. Apparently, I like data.

53LolaWalser
Ago 12, 2015, 4:56 pm

54Taphophile13
Ago 12, 2015, 5:44 pm

Oh, yes. Data.

Lt. Tasha Yar: What I want now is gentleness. And joy... and love. From you, Data; you are fully functional, aren't you?
Lt. Cmdr. Data: Of course, but...
Lt. Tasha Yar: How fully?
Lt. Cmdr. Data: In every way, of course. I am programed in multiple techniques.

55southernbooklady
Ago 12, 2015, 5:59 pm

>53 LolaWalser: Not that kind of data. :)

56LolaWalser
Ago 12, 2015, 6:00 pm

I better refrain from asking about the "output" people. :)

57LolaWalser
Jan 8, 2018, 10:44 am

I'm mentioning Shumona Sinha's Apatride here because women's "condition" is so much a theme, and because it's an interesting snapshot of a time and place--21st century Paris, with India (Calcutta and the countryside) in the background.

Going by the German translation (Staatenlos), I'm guessing the English one might also be "stateless". That's technically correct, but I think we're better off understanding the title as "homeless"--regardless of the passports and residences in author's possession.

What's interesting is the multidimensionality of her "homelessness": foreign/immigrant vs. native, black vs. white, non-native speaker vs. native speaker, but also the special homelessness of women in a world managed by and for men, of single childless women in a world where women are still seen as either mothers or pointless beings, and--this is rare, in my reading experience of similar books--even that of urban, "liberal", atheist humanists from "the third world" among masses of increasingly religious, conservative generations of recent or contemporary immigrants.

The narrative switches between chapters about Esha, a Bengali immigrant who teaches English to mostly Muslim students in a high school in Paris, and those about Mina, an illiterate peasant girl from the outskirts of Calcutta. Esha is/was in love with a dream about Paris and France, a dream that's ironically under assault from her experiences both with long-term natives (i.e. the traditional white ideal, the "real" France) and immigrants, those "like her", but really nothing like her.

The Muslim girls in her class object to her mentioning Simone de Beauvoir, because she liked women--apparently they mean in a lesbian sense (which isn't even factual)--and that is a "sin", haram, etc. Havoc constantly ensues; male pupils taunt her with threats and contempt, Esha eventually gets fired because the administrators just want quiet, education be damned.

A couple of black women attack Esha in the city, on class grounds--she is dressed too well and speaks too well for a foreigner, therefore with pretensions to be "better" than them--so they put her in her place.

Random Muslim men, cabdrivers mostly, harass her, or horrify with casual sympathy for Islamic terrorists.

This sad and angry immigrant matrix engulfs her like glue even as she strives to the "white" life. But that has cold and devious guardians who question her motives and suitability, and her most intimate contact with people therein are numerous sexual assignations with strangers she picks up almost randomly on her phone, meets once and never again.

Interestingly, when her mother in Calcutta asks her why she doesn't come back if life is so complicated in Paris, it's first her sexual freedom that she admits she can't give up. It's the summa of liberty, this ability to go from one man to another and live, without suffering the destiny of Mina back in the Indian village. She couldn't even rent an apartment to live alone in Calcutta. Women can't exist as independent single beings in most of the world.

Clearly, Sinha writes from a specific vantage point that probably isn't representative of the majority of non-white immigrants to Europe. Still, that point exists...

58John5918
Jan 8, 2018, 12:08 pm

>9 LolaWalser: Reasoning, says Schopenhauer, is of feminine nature: it can give only after it has received.

I've only just come across this thread, but this quote immediately brought to mind a wedding we went to last week. The protestant pastor preached about how the bible says the husband must love the wife, but it doesn't say that the wife must love the husband as the woman is only capable of loving after she has received love from the man. Apart from being misogynistic, it is also appalling theology. When I mentioned this to some of the women present, I was surprised at how many of them thought his sentiments were correct and inspiring.

59southernbooklady
Jan 8, 2018, 12:19 pm

>59 southernbooklady: I'd like to see that translated into English. Wiki says it's about to happen, but I don't have a listing for it yet.

60LolaWalser
Jan 8, 2018, 12:21 pm

>58 John5918:

Yeah, that's appalling in every way--and a very old and still common notion. Basically, in that view it doesn't matter how the woman feels about the man she's marrying, so lack of affection or enthusiasm or even outright opposition can be disregarded.

61LolaWalser
Editado: Jan 8, 2018, 12:31 pm

(might as well use the stupid duplicate posts...)

>59 southernbooklady:

Hey, Nicki--I think you meant Sinha--yeah, I hope she gets translated, I'm definitely interested to read her previous "succès de scandale", Assommons les pauvres! ("Let's kill the poor"--a borrowing from Baudelaire, who may or may not have been totally sarcastic--which Sinha obviously is.)

62LolaWalser
Editado: Jan 8, 2018, 12:22 pm

um... double doubles now, what the heck?!?!

63MarthaJeanne
Out 11, 2018, 9:59 am

I thought I was past having to worry about being harrassed myself, but today a guy ran into me at the store. OK, it happens. Now sure why, but being out with my walker seems to make me invisible. Except that as he apologized he grabbed my backside for a feel! I'd forgotten how horrible this feels. BTW, my walker just happened to bang into him a little while later. Can't imagine how that happened.

64LolaWalser
Out 11, 2018, 2:21 pm

Good god, I'm so sorry, MarthaJeanne. What a bastard.

65LolaWalser
Editado: Jul 8, 2019, 9:32 pm

In further chronicles of Unanticipated Perils of Reading While Female...

Like many book people, I enjoy "books about books" so Holbrook Jackson's Fear of books practically threw itself at me. I flipped through it, read a bit, looked at the date of original publication--1932, still a paradise of print and bookshops--and off we went. If I'd taken a look at the content page I might have read some more and avoided a bit of a shock.

As it happened, I read five parts of the total seven with interest and fairly high enjoyment, and landed wholly unprepared at Part VI--WOMEN AND THE FEAR OF BOOKS.

Let's note here first that Jackson was 57-58 in 1932--not young, but not necessarily a wizened old dino either. And it was the thirties! Of the 20th century! Women even had the vote here and there, flew planes, travelled alone... wrote books...

For all that, Jackson suddenly read as if he'd fallen through a trapdoor a good century, or two, or ten, earlier. Gone were the urbanity, the wit, the moderation and the enlightenment... in was a scared little man hysterically defending his turf from the monstrous regiment.

Even so, I may not have bothered with quoting him, if his attitudes didn't eerily match that of a bunch of older and younger "gentlemen" in some groups here on LT (which, by no means coincidentally, are in a curious minority of public groups on a general topic dominated by male, sexist voices. And altrightist and trumpist, but I'm digressing...) Jackson may be dead, his opinions... not yet.

Under that part title, followed (I'm preserving his italics but only include translations of the quotations in French etc. I'm also omitting the references, and note, the bolding is mine):

I. BIBLIOPHILY A MASCULINE PASSION

The day is not very far distant, Dibdin asserts, when females will begin to have as high a relish for Large Paper copies as their male rivals. That day has not come yet, nor is it, as they say, in the offing. Women are not collectors, nor are they lovers of aught save love and what pertains to it. They are notable readers, as I have confessed apart, but {...} it's only rarely that women have any affection for the books which delight them {...}, and I find few such references to book-love among their writings as that of Sara P. Paton, who loves, modestly at a distance, by proxy, as it were, some favourite author, whose sweet fancies, glowing thoughts, etc. have winged your lonely hours; then you may close the book, and lean your cheek against the cover, not out of love of the book, but because it recalls the face of a dear friend, or the adorable soul of the author.

Women bibliophiles! exclaims Octave Uzanne, I know not two words which screech more when they find themselves together. He cannot imagine a union more hypocritical, or one which smacks more of divorce, for with rare exceptions, the woman and bibliophily live on antipodes, no profound and intimate sympathy exists between them and books: no passion of epidermis or spirit. A woman in a library is a woman out of her frame. She brings grace, smiles, perfumes, and suchlike charms, which soften the austerity of a library with exquisite sweetness; but beware, she is no more to be trusted than a domestic monkey.

{Then follows long confused and repetitively self-contradictory discussion explaining why the evidence of women book collectors and readers proves nothing--if he claims women don't/can't do A, then that's that; any evidence to the contrary is bluntly countered by, basically, denying those women are... women.}

It was also a tradition of the Royal Hetaerae and the Cours d'Amour to respect art and letters, so that an elegant case of desirable books in the boudoir became a symbol of intelligence. In the end, it was their stewards and librarians who chose and cared for the books and their bindings, and it is to these anonymous but true lovers of books, therefore, that we should bring our homage and address our researches.

{This theme of someone other--invariably male--behind the "putative" woman bibliophile and her collection is one of the constantly revisited. No woman would like books or reading if some man didn't mentor her, and insofar women care for books at all it's for the sake of some man etc.}

II. WOMEN ARE JEALOUS OF BOOKS

{...}That all women oppose books in this way none would contend, for some few have been known to fall under the spell of bibliophily; and there are others, and they are of the more knowing sort, who are apt in the use of feminine witchery to lure their men from over-indulgence in the forbidden fruit of the book-shelves. {...} But women in themselves {...} make a Hell for bibliophiles. That they oppose books, miscall, rail, and revile, bear them deadly hate and malice, is well known. {...} But surely {this jealousy} is more outrageous in women by reason of the weakness of their sex and the readiness with which they persuade themselves of neglect.

{Oodles more quotations from woman-hating book nerds in history}

III. BOOK-LOVE CONTRA MATRIMONY

{...}

The sum of it all is that, as {Uzanne} advises, women harbour a general hatred of books, understanding as little how to appreciate them as a pet monkey a work of art. I am well aware that there will be many of the more gallant sort of men who will combat this opinion, as Eugene Field, who knew a wife who shared her husband's bibliophily, and I could myself beat up some few exceptions to it, but they would be so interlarded with provisos and psychological gimcracks that I shall let them go, for it would be as easy to teach a cow to dance as even the average intelligent woman to love books as a man does. At the same time I would make it clear that I see no defect in this, but rather a difference. Book-love is as masculine (though not as common) as growing a beard.


Well, I think that suffices to give a picture. The remaining subtitle in this part is IV. HENPECKED BOOKMEN--pages and pages of "bookmansplaining" why even the female fondness for reading is a fraud, a stupidity, a con etc. Thirty+ pages of this bashing in total ends with this little condescension, truly incongruous given what preceeded it:

...whatever I have said about their bibliophily, women, when they are so disposed, can read as valiantly as men.


Geez, Holly, stop, you're overwhelming us... that's much too potent praise for our empty little heads.

P.S. Googling around for more info on this specimen (I was wondering if he'd been married, for example--one hopes not for both spouses' sake), I came across this:

The Book Huntresses: Women Bibliophiles

(So that crack about "book love being as masculine as growing a beard" was a big fave with this guy.)

It's really not that difficult to understand why there were (are) fewer women than men book collectors--just follow the paths of privilege and power, custom and the social and economic conditions, the impact of cultural norms, especially regarding gender roles etc.

Or, you know. You can just insist women are less suited to intellectual pursuits than cows are to dancing, because that sort of thing makes your little dick hard or something.

66LolaWalser
Jul 19, 2023, 12:55 pm

Had a major case of déjà vu this morning on seeing this headline... turns out this year's report finds no progress whatsoever from ten years ago.

Nine out of 10 people are biased against women, says ‘alarming’ UN report (The Guardian, June 12)

(...) The biases result in barriers for women in politics, business and work, as well as the stripping away of their rights and human rights violations, said the researchers. Despite women being more educated and skilled than ever before, there was a 39% salary gap with men, they added. (...)


The UN report:

2023 GENDER SOCIAL NORMS INDEX (GSNI)

Gender bias is a pervasive problem worldwide. The Gender Social Norms Index (GSNI) quantifies biases against women, capturing people’s attitudes on women’s roles along four key dimensions: political, educational, economic and physical integrity. The index, covering 85 percent of the global population, reveals that close to 9 out of 10 men and women hold fundamental biases against women. Nearly half the world’s people believe that men make better political leaders than women do, and two of five people believe that men make better business executives than women do. Gender biases are pronounced in both low and high Human Development Index (HDI) countries. These biases hold across regions, income, level of development and cultures—making them a global issue.

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