Este tópico está presentemente marcado como "adormecido"—a última mensagem tem mais de 90 dias. Pode acordar o tópico publicando uma resposta.
over on LJ, elorie is asking for recs for feminist SF for a book group she's going to be moderating on her campus. Male authors of feminist SF came up, and someone commented that they would be suspicious of any list of feminist SF/F over 25 books that didn't include male authors.
I scratched my head and came up with (only) one or two male authors that I consider feminist, I put the question to y'all: which male authors would you recommend as writing feminist SF/F?
Samuel R Delany writes women well. If I remember correctly The Jewels of Aptor was his take on the Maiden, Mother, Crone.
What author's did you come up with?
As for Brin, well I found Glory Season to be pretty misogynistic. But that may be flavored by how I found the book -- which was an ugly public online fight where Brin was all petulant and abusive that feminist SF authors didn't find his attempt at a feminist utopian novel to be feminist....
Surely there are more?
Can you point me to the "ugly public online fight"?
I went looking it, and found several references to it but I couldn't find it.
I found several people stating that they thought "Glory Season" was misogynistic. But the only person who gave a reason, gave a stupid reason 'The men hang out on their boats and only come in for sex, while the woman do all the work." Indicating a basic lack of understanding of: biology, economics, feminism, and what Brin was doing.
But there is another question about male feminist authors. I have no doubt that men can be feminists (although there are some feminists who disagree) But I question the necessity of including male feminist authors in a course. I can't imagine anyone saying "They would be suspicious of any list of African-American SF/F over 25 books that didn't include white authors."
Insisting on including male authors just sounds like more male privilege (20) to me.
BTW - I've read Ryman and I'd include him.
What about Theodore Sturgeon's Venus Plus X? Considering when it was published I definitely would include it.
However I would probably agree with #4 that in a course on feminist SF one should surely be looking at how feminist SF has developed over the past 100 or so years - say from Herland to modern works (say the 90s). Venus Plus X definitely fits in to that. Modern male writers of feminist SF probably don't.
I don't buy that one should exclude male authors just for being male any more than one should include male authors to maintain a balance. Any serious study would look at the important and pivotal books, and if one of those is written by a man then so be it.
The Brin/Charnas fight was waay back when Glory Season came out, and I might have it some old unsorted files, but I think that was 3 or 4 computers (and a couple of OSes!) ago....I also can;t remember the details of why I disliked it so strongly, and just have the bad taste left. Which may incline me to reread it, but with the size of the TBR and wishlist, it's not likely.
Perhaps this bespeaks a need for a new taxonomy? or my finding authors who have escaped my attention?
I think you have a categorisation error when you compare "feminist writers" to "African-American writers". One is a description of an ethos, the other is a description of the genetic makeup of the writer.
But I didn't say "African-American writers" I said "list of African-American SF/F ". Which I admit is more ambiguous than Feminist SF/F. Feminist definitely refers to the content rather than to the author. While African-American SF/F could refer to either.
But consider, if you were making a list of African-American SF/F would you rather include Babel-17 by African-American author Samuel Delany but with no significant African American content or Anansi Boys by white English author Neil Gaiman that uses African mythology and, has an African-American protagonist and actually deals with issues of African-American culture.
As for David Brin, the critique of Glory Season that I heard (ten years ago now) wasn't that the women do all the work; it was that the characterization of the actual female characters wasn't that great, and the female protagonist ends up having to get rescued by the guys. ... But this was long ago, so I may not remember all the details of the book or the critiques.
Raphael Carter (maybe?), John Kessel, M. John Harrison, Matt Ruff, Joe Haldeman, and Geoff Ryman.
I sure don't think of Haldeman as feminist, and I don't see the feminist element in Harrison's Light - though it was a terrific novel. Kessel's "Stories for Men" is a story told by an unreliable narrator, namely a man chafing at restrictions in a feminist enclave in a generally patriarchal society, and I'd say it does qualify. Ruff and Ryman I don't know that well
11henrickpalsson Primeira Mensagem
Don't laugh or throw fruit: I suggest him for one and only one work --
...All You Zombies...
In the 1950s.
Graham Joyce's novels are inherently feminist in his care and presentation of his female characters, imo. He's not SF, more dark fantasy and magical realism. I also think he writes women extremely well.
James Patrick Kelly is another SF writer I would consider inherently feminist, though I would steer one towards his short fiction, not his novels.
I gotta tell you, the idea that one needs a male author to somehow legitimize a list of feminist SF really irks me.
The story opens with a male magazine writer ("The Unwed Mother" is his byline) in a bar getting angry at "I'm My Own Grandpa" playing on the jukebox. If that doesn't ring a bell then telling more would spoil the story.
/takes a swig of Old Underwear
the contrary of feminist.
Iain M. Banks has some really great female leads, but as has been mentioned: a strong female lead doesn't make a book feminst.
Nothing to complain though (unlike Brin's stuff...)
On the issue of Light, I had a discussion with a friend over on Shelfari and was convinced that it made sense as a Tiptree winner because so many of the major characters' damage is related to their gender and/or sexuality. It's been a little while, so I may get the details wrong, but at a minimum there were Anna Kearney's body image issues and anorexia and Seria Mau's complete retreat from her body as a result of her childhood sexual abuse; I think there was also stuff done with Michael Kearney's sexuality (don't remember what though) and Ed's preference for hyper-masculine noir tank experiences and attempt to force Neena into a traditional mothering role which she rejected. And then the Shrander, which was the only seemingly whole character in the book, was genderless as far as the reader could tell. . .
Haven't read any of the other male Tiptree winners myself, though I hear great things about Geoff Ryman.
Agree strongly on Charles Stross. More than just writing "strong" female characters, Glasshouse has lots of play with the idea of gender and bodies not lining up. For example, the protagonist is male (or at least had been living a number of different body forms for years, i forget). Thus, when "he" gets trapped in a regressive 50s-style experiment he's all surprised and frustrated to be trapped in this stereotypically weak and vulnerable female body. Like, the first thing "he" does is start working out, and there's a scene where he's like "oh shit, this regressive 50s style husband ("herself" a future-woman in a 50s-man's body) I've been saddled with could totally rape me in my own house if he wanted to. weird!!"
The other candidate I'd suggest for this list is Alexei Panshin, whose Rite of Passage was favorably reviewed by a woman SF writer here:
Feminist content is also tough. Do we include Delaney's Dhalgren? It definitely explores alternate societal structure and non-traditional gender roles, but I could imagine someone arguing that it is feminist only insofar as there are parallels to be drawn between the rôles of women and those of gay men.
Certainly some of the rest of Delaney's stuff must count. He imagines alternate family structures and alternate sexual structures and works with that. If you want to explore Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice and its use of pronouns, and you're serious about it, you probably also want to explore Stars in My Pocket, Like Grains of Sand by Delaney.
I'm curious to find the male-writer analogs of Marion Zimmer Bradley and the Mists of Avalon. There's a story that explicitly re-tells a male, Christian tale that is part of Western culture from a female, non-Christian perspective, and retells it with anger and passion. I'm reasonably sure that I've read the like by men, but they've escaped my brain.