Discussion Thread: Mansfield Park

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Discussion Thread: Mansfield Park

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1christina_reads
Abr 15, 2015, 12:02 pm

Welcome to the discussion thread for Mansfield Park! This is probably Austen's most controversial novel, with battle lines often drawn around the heroine, Fanny Price. Is she likable or insufferable? Do we admire her high moral sensibilities or find them irritating? Should she marry Edmund or Henry Crawford? Please share your opinions below!

Also, there is an excellent tutored read of MP over at the 75-ers group, which I highly recommend for those who have questions about the book or who just want to follow an interesting discussion!

So anyway, what did you think of the book? If this is a re-read for you, did your opinion change this time around? Did you love or hate Fanny Price?

2RidgewayGirl
Abr 15, 2015, 12:29 pm

I feel like I understand Fanny, and I have great sympathy for her, but I wouldn't want to spend much time with her.

3mamzel
Abr 15, 2015, 12:38 pm

I gave up after all the angst about the gold chains, better than half way through the book. I just couldn't take any more. Sorry, Fanny.

4christina_reads
Editado: Abr 15, 2015, 12:51 pm

>3 mamzel: I once read an article proposing that the business with the chains & the cross was a sexual metaphor: Henry Crawford's necklace is too big for the cross, but Edmund's chain is a perfect fit.

ETA: Found the article! It's called "'Slipping into the Ha-Ha': Bawdy Humor and Body Politics in Jane Austen's Novels," by Jill Heydt-Stevenson. There's also some discussion of Emma and Persuasion (with spoilers, so beware!).

5japaul22
Abr 15, 2015, 1:14 pm

>4 christina_reads: ok, that business about the size of the chain made me LOL! I don't buy that Austen was thinking that, but it sure is funny!

6mamzel
Abr 15, 2015, 1:28 pm

Maybe if I had known that I might have continued.

And then again, mmmm, nope. I was looking forward to reading all of the books but this one was becoming a chore. I'll be back for S&S.

7christina_reads
Abr 15, 2015, 1:39 pm

>5 japaul22: I don't know, I can buy it. Austen did make the "rears and vices" joke earlier in the novel, after all! But whether she meant it or not, it's fun to search for those double entendres -- especially in Mansfield Park, which seems like such a serious book overall.

8rabbitprincess
Abr 15, 2015, 6:16 pm

>4 christina_reads: *snorts tea out nose*

9The_Hibernator
Abr 18, 2015, 12:50 am

I liked Fanny a lot better this time than I did the last time I read the book. She seemed so insipid the first time around.

10christina_reads
Abr 23, 2015, 5:53 pm

I really love the fact that we read Mansfield Park right after Pride and Prejudice. In P&P, heroine Elizabeth Bennet is lively, witty, and outspoken. But in MP, those qualities are displaced onto the anti-heroine, Mary Crawford. I think it's so interesting that Austen was able to imbue Elizabeth and Mary with many of the same qualities, yet by tweaking them just a little bit, she was able to create such different characters!

11Nickelini
Abr 25, 2015, 12:52 am

>10 christina_reads: I think it's so interesting that Austen was able to imbue Elizabeth and Mary with many of the same qualities, yet by tweaking them just a little bit, she was able to create such different characters!

That's an interesting observation! I adore Elizabeth, and don't like Mary, but see what you mean. The difference to me is that Mary isn't socially intelligent or thoughtful.

>4 christina_reads: I once read an article proposing that the business with the chains & the cross was a sexual metaphor

So funny. I found an academic article discussing the sexual innuendo in the P&P conversation where Elizabeth tells Darcy:

"`My fingers,'' said Elizabeth, ``do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women's do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault -- because I would not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman's of superior execution.''

I don't think Austen really meant it there either, but now I can't stop seeing it.

Sorry, wrong novel. Just had to share that though.

12MarthaJeanne
Editado: Abr 25, 2015, 2:43 am

I think part of the point is that Fanny has been brought up to be 'insipid'. She is not expected to have opinions. She is expected to be the lowest person in any sort of society. Inside she has strength and convictions in spite of anything that her aunts say or do. And this in spite of her weak body.

Everyone is really surprised and offended when she refuses to act. But she suceeds in refusing, and that gives her practice for the next and more important refusal.

This has been interesting, because I have all the BBC DVDs and watch them often. Mansfield Park is my favourite. But I now have answers to some of the questions I have had on that. I really ought to read the book more often. I see that my last read was 2009.

If Fanny wanted Edmund, I'm glad she got him, but I find him insufferable.

13christina_reads
Maio 6, 2015, 3:46 pm

Saw this on The Toast today and thought it was applicable to our discussion! :)

14rabbitprincess
Maio 6, 2015, 6:44 pm

>13 christina_reads: Hee! I love The Toast.

15RidgewayGirl
Maio 11, 2015, 10:23 am

>13 christina_reads: That was wonderful!

16Nickelini
Maio 11, 2015, 11:48 am

>13 christina_reads:, >14 rabbitprincess:, >15 RidgewayGirl: -- there were some really interesting and entertaining comments under that too. Internet comments are generally known for disintegrating into "die, you moron," but that never happens on Jane Austen threads, no matter what website you're on. Austen fans have the best manners on the internet.

17christina_reads
Maio 11, 2015, 6:34 pm

>16 Nickelini: Jane has taught us well. :)

18MarthaJeanne
Editado: Ago 13, 2015, 3:37 am

I just finished reading Belle : the slave daughter and the Lord Chief Justice, and in an appendix Byrne gives a key to Mansfield Park based on sugar plantations, the abolition movement, and related topics.

Sir Thomas has problems in Antigua based on his absenteeism, and problems at home develop from his becoming an absentee there. The name Mansfield was connected to the abolition movement, the name Norris was that of an infamous slave captain, who talked about how well slaves lived, but killed and whipped (24 lashes) women on his ship. ...

19christina_reads
Ago 15, 2015, 11:58 am

>18 MarthaJeanne: That's very interesting! Such an apt name for Mrs. Norris.

20sturlington
Editado: Set 2, 2015, 7:25 pm

I just finished the audio version and I really enjoyed it. I am not sure I cared for any of the characters, but I felt I got to know them quite well. I really felt this was Austen's most psychological novel, except for perhaps Persuasion.