"perverted" sex: "normal" for many?

DiscussãoAlternative Sexuality

Aderi ao LibraryThing para poder publicar.

"perverted" sex: "normal" for many?

Este tópico está presentemente marcado como "adormecido"—a última mensagem tem mais de 90 dias. Pode acordar o tópico publicando uma resposta.

1andyray
Set 26, 2007, 9:16 am

it took me 40-plus years to realize the incest emotional and somewhat physical experiences i had growing up made it so I chose younger girls as far back when i was 11 and the girl was six years old. we played "show mine and show me yours and peed and pooped in front of each other. I know now that, in an absence of through sexual education, beginning in the PRIMARY SCHOOL YEARS, this form of sexual play is "normal." I also know that the incestual mark has been ingrained within me and the fact that the love of my life is 39 years old and I am 64 isn't just happenstance. Our favorite lovemaking is when i am "daddy" and she is my "little girl" and we really get it on then. that plus her whole demeanour is that of a "little girl,"; e.g., she doesn't produce income, dresses for a makeup effect rather than to wear clothes, and throws temper tantrums that endear me to her. I doubt one in a thousand of so-called "normal" people of the opposite sex could live with either one of us, but we have found each other in the streets of daytona beach and in the rooms of spirituality. We surely have gone the wrong way with psycho-therapy aimed at "normalizing" such things as incest, scatology, golden showers (which we love), nudity, gaydom,. lesbianism, family love, S&M, B&D. In this we ARE progressing. We will have "arrived" when we get rid of these archaic laws fostered upon us by the relgiious right of every religion! If you think the fundamentalists here are bad, try being a woman (or man) in the Islamic countries!

Am interested to hear from ALL LTers. Yes, even the fundamentalists. I believe my views (and those of Sue Bright et al) are becoming slowly the majority. But all tooooo slowly.

2shewhowearsred
Editado: Set 26, 2007, 8:58 pm

Hello again, andyray. I didn't realize you and I had so much in common. My partner is 49 and I am 21. We've been together for just over three years. I don't call him "Daddy", but he does occasionally call me his little girl. Some aspects of our relationship echo that roleplay even in vanilla settings. I call him "Master" the way vanilla people would use "sweetheart" and we are heavily into D/s and S&M. I have never been in a vanilla relationship.

I have heard of a lot of people in the lifestyle who, like you, experienced physical/emotional trauma in their childhood. It's not uncommon. However, my partner and I are exceptions. He and I both had idyllic childhoods, mine even more so than his. Neither of us was abused in any way, and we grew up in homes with both parents who are still together today.

In cases like yours where "perverted" sex is preceded by trauma, I think it's a fine line between regressing to familiar unhealthy behaviors and transcending those behaviors to find a healthier mean. I don't mean to say that you, or people who have been abused and practice BDSM, are unhealthy at all-- but some are. I keep thinking about The Secretary, and how it is supposedly a BDSM classic. I would say that the kind of relationship the main characters had wasn't safe, sane, or consensual at all!

Anyway, sorry for wandering a bit off topic. Yes, I totally agree that we need to get rid of the notions that all unusual sexual proclivities are disorders. I was a psychology major at one point and was disgusted to find out that the DSM-IV lists sadomasochism, voyeurism, exhibitionism, and others as disorders!

3KromesTomes
Set 26, 2007, 12:47 pm

andyray: I've read and reread your post, and I have to ask: when you mention "incest" and "family love," you're not implying sexual contact between adults and children, are you?

4heinous-eli
Set 26, 2007, 6:26 pm

It's true that a lot of sexual practices once considered "perverted" or "kinky" are now considered "normal". It always makes me think of Rick James's "Superfreak" --- "incense, wine, and candles" were called "a freaky scene." Have standards changed or what?

5andyray
Out 4, 2007, 10:40 am

#3: no. I am not "implying" this. I am overtly stating that, if you have been physically OR EMOTIONALLY incested, stop lashing yourself with a mental cat-of-nine tails and causing pain and LIVE WITH IT as well as you can. I like little girls in a WOMAN's BODY. I doubt I could stomach thinking about making love with a child. Don't know. Don't think about it.

That having been said, there are whole societies extant where the father "breaks in" the daughter and vice versa. Read Margaret Meade or any good ethnologist or anthropologist's works.

6KromesTomes
Out 4, 2007, 12:32 pm

andyray: Totally my error here ... I had meant to write "you're not implying sexual contact between adults and children IS OKAY, are you?"

It's obvious from post #5 you're not ...

7andyray
Editado: Nov 9, 2007, 11:36 am

Kronos -- even in liberality, there must be boundaries. without boundaries, nothing can progress, and breaking boundaries is not always progress.

that being said, boundaries are set BY INDIVIDUALS and I shall never, ever want to punish any two adult people from having mutual sexual contact with each other.

8KromesTomes
Out 10, 2007, 11:16 am

andyray: I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but once again, with your message #7, you imply that you support adults having sexual contact with children ... or at least that you would not want to punish an adult who does so ...

9CliffordDorset
Maio 27, 2009, 12:54 pm

This thread demonstrates the unease most people have in examining what they or others find erotically arousing, and in matching their feelings regarding both personal and broader aspects with the structure of morality that each one of us uses as a guide, day-to-day.

It's quite possible that the fantasies and fetishes that arouse people haven't really changed very much over the centuries, and that any impressions to the contrary are the result of people sensing a less judgemental atmosphere at present. The current availability of books giving graphic detail suggests this is so, as does the fact that their increasingly discreet availability on 'respectable' parts of the internet such as Amazon. Descriptions of anal activity are now commonplace, whereas they were recently taboo.

Some of the topics touched on in this thread represent the major remaining boundary of acceptability. However, the over-riding principles usually required of sexual activity: consensuality, and the absence of harm, whether physical or mental, provide boundaries that are proven firm and secure, and probably adequate, given a legally enshrined framework of consent.

There will always be, I suspect, a debate whether erotic enactment of childish behaviour amongst consenting adults - tantrums and subsequent chastisement, for example, or 'scholastic' role-play - may encourage subsequent straying into illegality, but there is a strong counter-argument that recognises the benignly therapeutic nature of thoroughly adult activities of this type.

We should not shy away from discussions of this. For the 'moral climate' to swing back towards the Victorian era would not be helpful, in my opinion.

10princessforDaddy
Editado: Jun 24, 2009, 7:40 pm

i am in a long term monogamous relationship. i find being his little girl and age play very good... i was abused as a young child and as weird as it is for even myself at times i really enjoy him being my daddy.

11bergs47
Nov 27, 2009, 6:47 am

It’s interesting how we use the term perverted here. I don’t like using it because its sets what I call different into a negative sounding word. I have certain fetishes which I would hate to use the word perverted over. I would on the other hand not call them normal either. But then again what is normal? However there are practices mentioned in some of these posts which are not normal, nor perverted but merely criminal and do not like them mentioned in the same way as other fetishes or perversions. I think I am in agreement with Krommes here as to what is an absolute No no

12CliffordDorset
Nov 28, 2009, 7:22 pm

>11 bergs47:

I agree with the need to avoid judgmental words such as 'perverted', and 'kinky', without implying that particular 'unusual' practices are 'normal'.

Another point arising here: Are we converging on 'acceptable' as being equivalent to 'not illegal'? I'm strongly against practices that would corrupt minors, but I'm less certain about consensual activities between adults, whatever their blood relationship, in the way that I can see a clear dividing line between the erotic causing of pain and other (non-consensual) forms of violence.
.