Do you think that everyone is your type?

DiscussãoMyers-Briggs: All Types

Aderi ao LibraryThing para poder publicar.

Do you think that everyone is your type?

Este tópico está presentemente marcado como "adormecido"—a última mensagem tem mais de 90 dias. Pode acordar o tópico publicando uma resposta.

1citygirl
Out 23, 2007, 4:26 pm

I'm laughing at myself. Ever since I started seriously studying this theory I've tried to type all kinds of people. I have lots of fun trying it on the people you see on tv a lot, but what's funny is how many of those with admirable traits I like to assign to INTJ, my type, e.g., Roger Federer. I figure I'm frequently wrong. Do you guys do this?

2mpramanik
Out 23, 2007, 11:48 pm

I type a lot of characters in books, and their authors. Whenever there is a male character that I like, I usually type them as an NT, and the females I like are usually NF. I also type many of my friends and aquaintances (mostly N's). From them (excepting the INFP on this site) I have never known another INFP (that's my type) although today I just met one! Now she is quite interested in learning about personality types and may be showing up in this group at some point!

3chamekke
Editado: Out 24, 2007, 2:28 am

Actually, I seldom assume that other people are my type (INTJ). However, I'm always interested in finding famous INTJs whose work I admire - as opposed to Ayn Rand, say, who is ever prominent on such lists, but whose writing and ideology I don't much care for.

Three authors whom I do deeply admire, and whom many people believe to be INTJ, are Jane Austen, Emily Dickinson, and Noam Chomsky. (And one other person I'm currently wondering about is Stephen Colbert. The NT seems obvious, to me at least, but the I and J are really just a guess/hope. At any rate, the acerbity of his humour seems to me to be very INTJ-ish in general.)

Note to mpramanki: the one individual at my office who really speaks the same language as me, perceptually speaking, is an INFP. And she loves MBTI, too. (We had an hour-long discussion today on how we might apply typology insights when planning future departmental workshops!)

(Edited to add touchstones for Ayn Rand. I may not like her, but she's as entitled to her touchstone as any other author on LT.)

4citygirl
Out 24, 2007, 11:54 am

Colbert strikes me as ENTP-ish. And, yes, chamekke, I would agree that the NT is obvious. I hadn't heard that Dickinson is thought to be INTJ. I like that. I always want to hear about INTJ authors since I aspire to be one. I don't find Rand to be a literary inspiration, since her books are more about expressing ideology than literary art.

What about Jon Stewart?

mpramanik, I'm glad you found a playmate. Send her an invite to the group! Btw, I am a fan of INFPs. I do very well with NFs in general.

5thebarnazi
Out 24, 2007, 11:59 am

Just because it really sounds interesting, would one of you be so kind as to fill me in on the types (the initials) what they each mean. Thanks I am one to label a type o person, but in my own way.

6citygirl
Out 24, 2007, 12:32 pm

barnazi, I am going to give you a Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

But basically E-extrovert, I-introvert
N-intuitive, S-sensor
T-thinker, F-feeler
J-judging, P-perceiving.

We each fall somewhere on a continuum between the pairs. The combinations tell us many things about a particular type of person.

David Keirsey continued the Myers-Briggs research with these combinations:

An "NT" is known as Rational or Intellectual and is very analytic. They build systems and see what can be. Thomas Jefferson.

an "NF" is known as an Idealist or Visionary and really "gets" people. Oprah.

"SJ" - Guardian or Traditionalist. They keep order and continuity and make sure everyone is doing what they're supposed to be doing. They take care of what others ignore and like the status quo.

"SP" - Artisan or Experiencer. They must have action and live in the moment. Madonna, Clint Eastwood.

7thebarnazi
Out 24, 2007, 12:44 pm

thanks citygirl, appreciate your help, now I'll figure out myself and let you know

8citygirl
Out 24, 2007, 1:22 pm

There are links on the group page to a few "unofficial" tests.

9chamekke
Out 24, 2007, 5:55 pm

4> What about Jon Stewart?

Very strong F type, in my view. If I had to nail him down, I'd guess he's an ENFP. Have you noticed how concerned Stewart is to re-establish harmonious relationships with his guests after grilling/embarrassing them - even the ones he disagrees with? And how tactile he is - often bending forward to give small "reassurance" touches? I can't imagine Letterman doing anything like that. Stewart is such a sweetheart :-)

P.S. I added the touchstone so that people interested in Jon Stewart's book will be able to see which conversations he's been mentioned in. Ye-e-e-e-ssss {steeples fingers} ... let us draw in ever more victims into the MB forum with our tantalizing pop culture references ... {re-steeples calculatingly}

10citygirl
Editado: Out 24, 2007, 6:19 pm

I really needed that laugh, chamekke. Thanks! But did you mean this touchstone: Jon Stewart? Argh! He's coming up red! America (the book). There we go...now they'll be drawn in.

ETA: Next time I watch The Daily Show, I'll watch for his touchy-feelies. You know, I kinda think he's an F, too, but it's his eyes that make me think that.

Ooh! Let's try another: Justin Timberlake (since we're going for pop culture references). He actually touchstoned! Or, if that's not good: James Bond. He touchstoned, too! Weird.

11villandry
Out 24, 2007, 6:36 pm

very clever ladies...yes, Jon is very sensitive toward his guests, but only after he has gone in for the kill...sounds T'ish to me, I will have to watch closer next time.

As for James Bond...which one?

12citygirl
Editado: Out 24, 2007, 7:20 pm

Let's go with my new favorite Bond (sorry, Pierce, Sean): Daniel Craig as Bond. SP?

Oh, and chamekke, I can agree on Jon Stewart as ENFP. He's quirky.

13chamekke
Editado: Out 25, 2007, 11:32 am

villandry: I'll have to watch the Daily Show more closely (when it returns next week) so that I can give you convincing examples of Jon Stewart's F-ness ;-)

citygirl: I really did add what, at the time, was a functioning touchstone to the Jon Stewart reference in my last posting... but it vanished. Drat. I don't know why these touchstones come and go, or why some authors' touchstones work while others almost never do.

P.S. villandry, I came across a blog reference to Jon Stewart's appearance on Crossfire in which one person said, in reference to his obvious anger, "jon stewart appears to be mad because his values have been violated (common NF crisis for you myers-briggs fans)". I agree that he does really "go in for the kill" sometimes, but only - as this blogger suggests - when he thinks that some vitally important principle has been violated. And when this happens with Stewart, for once he doesn't follow it up with an apology for his cheekiness and he doesn't comfort, either with a friendly handshake or a "reassurance" touch, because for him the matter is too serious (and he has nothing to apologize for).

We mustn't fall into the trap of thinking that it's only T's who criticize...

14chamekke
Out 25, 2007, 11:38 am

For citygirl:

Famous People by Myers-Briggs Type

This list is a little more extensive than most. Sure, some of the usual suspects are there, e.g. the INTJ list has Dan Aykroyd, as always (why can no one on the Internets spell his surname correctly?). But I think this may be the first time I've seen Josephine Tey (Brat Farrar, The Franchise Affair) on an INTJ list. Good call, I think.

And it's nice to see Charles Everett Koop on there; he offsets some of the nasties. (I'm not sure which "Hannibal" is intended by the author of this list; most INTJ lists have "Hannibal Lecter" instead :-)

15citygirl
Out 25, 2007, 11:46 am

Ergh! Can't get into it until I get home! My work randomly excludes pages. I'm so unhappy :(

16villandry
Out 25, 2007, 3:43 pm

chamekke - you've got a point there...as an NF i can totally get tough if there is something important at stake! No doubt about that. Hey, let's send him an email and ask...who knows. Maybe he will respond. Can't hurt to try.

17chamekke
Out 31, 2007, 12:20 pm

citygirl, you should also take a look at this thread on the MBTI Forum:

INTJ Writers?

One person thinks Ursula K. LeGuin (The Dispossessed, The Lathe of Heaven, etc.) is INTJ. Since she's one of my favourite writers, I'd love to think she's one of us.

18citygirl
Out 31, 2007, 7:25 pm

Thank you, chamekke. I'll have to check out that site in more detail. And put LeGuin on my list of TBR authors.

"one of us" - exactly. It's like there are so few that we're always trying to claim someone. I enjoyed the little disagreement that broke out between an INTP and and INTJ re Asimov, I think? "Mine!" "No, mine!"

19chamekke
Nov 1, 2007, 4:05 am

Isaac Asimov? I have my doubts about the claims for his supposed introversion ... I met the man and he seemed very much the confirmed Extravert to me :-)

Then there is the question of typing fictional characters. I used to be a regular viewer of "The West Wing", and came to the conclusion that Sam Seaborn was an INTJ (and the only one of the lot). INTJs aren't only scarce in real life, they're pretty rare in fiction, too!

20historydoctor
Editado: Jan 4, 2008, 6:14 pm

I would tend to type people I like or admire as INFJs (my type) were it not for the fact that I know how unlikely that is. Amongst my friends I find it easier to type people as E or I, and J or P, than to distinguish between F or T. For example, I typed my wife and one of our friends as INTJ and in both cases I was wrong because the tests made them INFJs. I suspect that Fs find it relatively easy to develop their T side, particularly if they work in a profession which requires or values logical thought processes (for example, my wife has a background in computer engineering but later switched to study history).

As a side point, introverts are quite capable of appearing extrovert; it just requires more emotional energy to do it. Many of my friends and colleagues have found it hard to believe that I'm an introvert because I can appear very extrovert but it takes a lot out of me. I know how I feel inside though, and the tests always agree that I'm strongly introvert. I explain it to my friends by saying that 'I'm an introvert who hates to be lonely.'

21infjsarah
Jan 5, 2008, 11:17 am

interesting this. I loved the West Wing and I always thought Sam was an INFJ like myself and Toby was an INTJ although as he was moody I did think he might be an INFJ also. I know I don't always recognise my own moodiness! But as Toby didn't care what others thought of him whereas Sam did, I still think INTJ Toby and INFJ Sam. Both writers though!

22chamekke
Jan 5, 2008, 12:26 pm

>21 infjsarah: I loved the West Wing and I always thought Sam was an INFJ like myself and Toby was an INTJ although as he was moody I did think he might be an INFJ also (...) But as Toby didn't care what others thought of him whereas Sam did, I still think INTJ Toby and INFJ Sam.

Of course, guessing the type of anyone - much less a fictional character - is an inexact science. You could well be right!

Incidentally, I am an INTJ (and a writer) and I do care quite passionately what other people think of me. I don't care what everyone thinks of me, but I care about the opinions of those I respect and love. And, I can be moody up the wazoo - just ask my husband :-) T-types do feel deeply.

I'll have to go back and look at individual incidents to explain why I thought Sam to be INTJ, but the T-part has to do with how he had a pattern (I thought) of making decisions based on what was "objectively", abstractly right, rather than what would create emotional harmony. F-types really care about what is right, too; but as I understand it, if it's a tight call between one or the other, F-types have a tendency to come down on the human side of the equation rather than on the abstract side. T-types tend to go the other way ("fairness and justice is ultimately more important"). One reason why I personally would peg Toby as more F than T is his decision to leak the existence of the secret space shuttle program based on the fact that his brother was on board and at risk. (And one reason I'd peg Bartlet as F is that when he had to make the decision about whether or not to pardon Toby, he finally went for the pardon... in fact I predicted to hubby that Bartlet would do exactly that.)

But, these are just impressions and it would be fun to be contradicted!

Incidentally, I was unable to find anything on the Web that mapped MBTI types to the West Wing characters, but I did find an "Enneagram and The West Wing" article here. Very interesting too:
http://frydman.co.uk/enneagram-and-the-west-wing.

23infjsarah
Jan 6, 2008, 9:36 am

I certainly don't think T's don't have feelings. My best friend at college was an INTJ and she definately had feelings. I think your definition of the difference between F and T is accurate but as with all introverts it can be hard/impossible to see what is going on behind a decision.
As you say you cannot really type fictional characters as they're not real and often change based on what the writers want them to do althought the best series do try to be faithful to their characters.
I enjoyed the Enneagram article. I don't know much about the Enneagram as I don't find it as interesting as the Myers-Briggs. But interestingly when I have taken the test I come out as a 4 with a 5 wing which this article cites Toby as being and Sam not at all. So perhaps I have more in common with Toby than I thought.
Actually I don't mind at all as I really admired his passion and need to do the right thing even if it was politically impossible.
I do try not to be moody but oh boy it is hard sometimes.

24chamekke
Jan 6, 2008, 11:11 am

21> T-types do feel deeply.

22> I certainly don't think T's don't have feelings. My best friend at college was an INTJ and she definately had feelings.

I'm sorry, I wasn't expressing myself too clearly here. I really didn't mean to imply that you thought that; I was trying to make a more general statement. (Here's a perfect example of an Introvert being under the mistaken impression she said more than she actually did! See the thread What would you change or are you trying to change about yourself?.)

When I typed the above, I was thinking, "A lot of people (and I'm not saying this of you!) are under the mistaken impression that F-types only feel and that T-types only think." And then I typed only the following sentence: "T-types do feel deeply." (I could well have added, "And F-types do think!")

{hits self on head} I must stop assuming people will hear what I'm thinking instead of what I'm saying...

Anyhow, I'm like you - I'm really not as interested in the Enneagram thing as I am in Myers-Briggs, perhaps because I find it less precise. But it was a fun enough article to share - especially if you're a fan of "The West Wing" :-)

25INTJ_mom Primeira Mensagem
Jan 6, 2008, 1:48 pm

When I'm first getting to know someone or if I'm having difficulty with them, I try to do a general David Keirsey temperament typing - like SJ, NT, etc. I rarely think anyone else is an INTJ. A lady I met last year did an online assessment I sent to her and told me she came up INTJ but I just can't see any INTJ in her. She seems much more "E" than "I", mainly because she talks a mile a minute and talks constantly; others can rarely get a word in edgewise. And it's pretty much all small talk, she seems to be a master of small talk. But I also suspect she might be bipolar, and if she is, those bipolar traits might be why I don't see her as an INTJ.

26historydoctor
Jan 6, 2008, 7:54 pm

My mother met someone very similar last year at a conference. She was convinced that she was an introvert despite being clearly amonst the most extrovert people in the room. She was not pleased when the test result disagreed with her self-image and insisted on joining a group of introverts, which she then proceeded to dominate completely.

27Sparrowing
Mar 12, 2008, 9:12 pm

#3
Emily Dickinson is thought to be an INTJ? She seems very much an NF to me, but that's just based on her writing. I haven't read much about her life.

#22
I also see Toby as an NF. He is the one who looks like he's in physical pain when he has to sacrifice what is right to politics. Also he's cynical in a way that seems very F to me, T's are cynical too, but an NF who has lost faith in ideals has that special edge. I don't know what Sam is; he's personable, but he can argue very well against his own ideals, F's sometimes have trouble with that, but then he was a lawyer... I haven't watched West Wing in awhile, so my perceptions are not the freshest. Bartlet is completely an F though.

28vpfluke
Mar 13, 2008, 12:34 pm

Googling "Emily Dickinson" INTJ comes up with 991 results.
Googling "Emily Dickinson" INFJ comes up with 1,640 results.
My own bias is also to INFJ, but maybe it isn't clearcut.

29beatles1964
Mar 13, 2008, 1:20 pm

Working in a Library I find it curious that all the Librarians here and the rest of the Library Staff are all Introverts. We took the Myers-Brigg Test several years ago and I thought that working in a Library or even a Book Store is more of an Extroverted
Field and yet there are all these Introverts. I am the lone exception in my Library. I think a couple of people may be on the Extrovert/Introvert borderline.
I mean dealing with people and answering questions is a very Extroverted thing to do. I know whenever I go to a Party I always feel energized by mingling with everyone and talking to them. I also have my Introverted moments of course whenever I play my PS2 Video Games, write in my journal or read a book but I am a very strong E way more Extroverted than Introverted. Librarianwannabe

30mpramanik
Mar 18, 2008, 10:54 pm

After approximately 45 years, I think I have finally met another INFP! The only problem is that because we are both so introverted, I don't think there is really much of a chance of becoming friends.

31chamekke
Mar 21, 2008, 2:46 pm

>29 beatles1964:

I am curious as to why you expected high numbers of extravert employees in libraries and bookshops.

A lot of people seem to assume that introvert = shy. As it happens, I just attended a WritersUA conference in which one of the speakers made comments about "introverts" using exactly this equation - and got some tart responses from the audience! In reality, shyness is not the domain of introverts - anyone, introvert or extravert, may be shy.

It's probably truer to say that introverts are more comfortable with the intimacy of one-on-one, or small-group, interactions and discussions. They (we) are generally less comfortable with participating in large groups. When I worked in a bookstore, most of my conversations took place with a single customer at a time (occasionally two people), talking about a topic that I loved - books. Since shyness isn't an issue for me, I was always very comfortable with this.

But - I still find participating in larger groups to be a drain on my energy, more often than not, and will probably tend to avoid attending big parties for as long as I live! My ideal for a party or social get-together is one that is fairly small (no more than 6 people) and where there's the opportunity to have meaningful conversation with everyone present. This is in contradistinction to my mother, who was a confirmed extravert who actually gained energy from the hubbub, and tended to feel that the more people present, the better!

32beatles1964
Editado: Mar 21, 2008, 3:14 pm

I guess because those kind of jobs seem ideally suited for an extravert like me. Extraverts love being around crowds of people, myself included and I do draw energy from large parties. I am kind of like an Energy
Vampire getting it from everywhere at parties, staff meetings, just being around a lot of people like in a Video Store, Department Store or just buying
groceries. I am in my element with large number of people mingling and talking with everyone, being on a Party Planning Committee, etc. It just surprized me with all the introverts I work with on a regular basis.
Don't get me wrong I love my job and everyone I work with too it just seemed strange to me since Introverts as you say like to be around much smaller groups or one-on-one kind of events. And Libraries and Book Stores you are dealing with people on a constant basis all the time and sometimes they come in large groups for Library Tours or Training Seminars we offer at my library. I think being around Library Staff at Staff Meetings or Training Courses they feel comfortable enough because they see you every day.
I don't know maybe I just bought into the whole Introvert means shy, quiet and loner descriptions. I can walk up to any one of them and start a conversation with and they know me for the Extravert I am.

Librarianwannabe

33vpfluke
Mar 21, 2008, 5:24 pm

I see introverts as people who use their own inner reources for validation, whereas extraverts wants others to be their validation. People who use librarians to help them with questions or finding books expect the librarian to draw upon his or her resources to answer questions, etc. The introvert can delve into their own experiences and expertise (as well as physcial resources) to answer questions, and don't need to do checkpoint with other people before answering a question or doing their work. I am on the cusp, and I go back and forth between these modalities.

34peteslibrarything
Abr 25, 2008, 4:56 am

Interesting.

What is validation?

35vpfluke
Abr 25, 2008, 5:09 pm

For me, validation in my extravert modality is asking other people whether a decision I am about to make is valid. My decision can't be right until other people hop on my bandwagon. In my introvert modality, I can turn to my own inner resources for deciding.

36peteslibrarything
Abr 26, 2008, 5:16 am

Doesn't work for me, as an ESFP.

When I'm right, I'm right whether anyone else agrees or not. Even when I'm wrong.

At work, I'll consult with people about decisions that will affect them. That's expected. With groups of people, things tend to work out better if there is some consensus in most, but not all, work contexts.

I rarely ask other people about decisions relating to my own life. In fact, I can't remember the last time that I did. I trust my own judgement on just about everything in just about every context that I can think of.

37vpfluke
Abr 26, 2008, 1:57 pm

Perhaps validation is not so much whether one is right or not, but making sure other people know what your course of action is going to be.

38eserafina42
Abr 26, 2008, 3:58 pm

Hallelujah - another INFP! I've played the game of trying to type people, but haven' t noticed much of anyone (at least while doing it) that I'd call the same type as me.

39zenomax
Abr 26, 2008, 4:55 pm

I trust my own judgment completely in certain areas and will not be moved because I just know I am right. But in other (more worldly, day to day?) areas I will seek my wifes view because I do not trust my judgment.

I am an INTJ my wife is an ESFP.

40vpfluke
Abr 26, 2008, 5:22 pm

Spouses always change the picture. Vacation travel, for instance, is not a solo decision -- period.

41peteslibrarything
Abr 29, 2008, 6:43 am

Re: vpfluke validation thing

I think your description of the processes and behaviours involved sounds more like Fe, extraverted or outer world feeling, rather than extraversion per se.

My second function preference is for Fi, or inner world feeling, which may explain why I don't relate to it.

42vpfluke
Abr 29, 2008, 10:09 am

I think you're probably right on Fe for me.