Any interest in a "mysticism" group?
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1sashame
if theres sufficient interest across related groups, id like to start a "mysticism" group to discuss comparative-historical training, practices, texts, philosophy, and history. plz post below if u might b interested!
by "mysticism" i mean those traditions generally found within religious movements that emphasize the attainment of altered states of consciousness and perception of hidden truth
including:
-taoist internal alchemy
-hindu/buddhist yoga & tantra
-sufi art
-jewish kabbalah
-gnostic & stoic discipline
-christian ecstasies & visions
-jungian depth psychology
-wicca ritual
-new age psychedelia
-new/emergent digital folk practices, like tulpamancy
-various magical/shamanistic/dream traditions
-and more!?
anyway, post below if interested or if u have any qs !!
by "mysticism" i mean those traditions generally found within religious movements that emphasize the attainment of altered states of consciousness and perception of hidden truth
including:
-taoist internal alchemy
-hindu/buddhist yoga & tantra
-sufi art
-jewish kabbalah
-gnostic & stoic discipline
-christian ecstasies & visions
-jungian depth psychology
-wicca ritual
-new age psychedelia
-new/emergent digital folk practices, like tulpamancy
-various magical/shamanistic/dream traditions
-and more!?
anyway, post below if interested or if u have any qs !!
2elenchus
I would certainly follow along, with the intent of posing questions if posts helped focus my thoughts. Less likely to contribute content on my own.
4paradoxosalpha
I would be a lurker because of disciplina arcani.
Those who know, don't talk. Those who talk, don't know. --Lao Tzu
Those who know, don't talk. Those who talk, don't know. --Lao Tzu
6PeterGMcCarthy
A discussion on mysticism could be interesting. I taught the study of religions for some years to university students and have often been fascinated with the mystical impulses in the world religions, such as the 'drunk' Sufis, and the kirtan in Sikhism. I also find interesting the 'negative theology' of Christianity.
I suspect much of new age and popular mysticism is a little incoherent. I just don't think that going too inward is coherent philosophically, and any genuine mysticism is going to be about encounters, as bodily creatures, with the creator. This of course will lead us to write (and mystics write their socks off), but words, though perhaps necessary, will fail, and then the silence might be appropriate.
I suspect much of new age and popular mysticism is a little incoherent. I just don't think that going too inward is coherent philosophically, and any genuine mysticism is going to be about encounters, as bodily creatures, with the creator. This of course will lead us to write (and mystics write their socks off), but words, though perhaps necessary, will fail, and then the silence might be appropriate.
7librorumamans
I could be interested in discussing Jakob Böhme or, perhaps, Meister Eckhart.
8PeterGMcCarthy
One thing mystical writers have achieved is to readjust our confidence in being able to capture God in human language. One reason for saying ‘God is a rabbit’ is to remind ourselves of the constraints of language in these matters.
One might say ‘God is light’, or ‘God is darkness’, or one might say. ‘God is light and darkness, or neither light nor darkness’ at which point it becomes apparent that language is breaking down under the pressure of trying to express what it can barely comprehend.
One might say ‘God is light’, or ‘God is darkness’, or one might say. ‘God is light and darkness, or neither light nor darkness’ at which point it becomes apparent that language is breaking down under the pressure of trying to express what it can barely comprehend.
9sashame
I haven't found much enthusiasm so far, so i prolly will not make a new group. but im pleased to see so many ppl responded here so far!
>5 0_o: i love the dao de jing! r u reading it currently? already read it? plan to read?
>7 librorumamans: Eckhart is on my reading list! would certainly love to discuss together once i get more acquainted
>4 paradoxosalpha: >6 PeterGMcCarthy: >8 PeterGMcCarthy:
i think the heart of mystic writing is to direct the reader away from the writing--the text can only ever serve as a pointer towards the real practices. and wrt the insufficiency of text, there is ofc no lack of mystical art to help guide and inspire as well. i think its beautiful how so many mystics--from chan hermits to cloistered nuns--despised the written word as a vehicle for truth, and yet turned to it anyway. what can we leave behind, what can we send out into the world beyond us, that could help others find truth?
>5 0_o: i love the dao de jing! r u reading it currently? already read it? plan to read?
>7 librorumamans: Eckhart is on my reading list! would certainly love to discuss together once i get more acquainted
>4 paradoxosalpha: >6 PeterGMcCarthy: >8 PeterGMcCarthy:
i think the heart of mystic writing is to direct the reader away from the writing--the text can only ever serve as a pointer towards the real practices. and wrt the insufficiency of text, there is ofc no lack of mystical art to help guide and inspire as well. i think its beautiful how so many mystics--from chan hermits to cloistered nuns--despised the written word as a vehicle for truth, and yet turned to it anyway. what can we leave behind, what can we send out into the world beyond us, that could help others find truth?
10tungsten_peerts
I think it's an interesting idea. I'd say more but not if it's likely not gonna happen. :D
Taoist alchemical stuff is very, very ...!
Taoist alchemical stuff is very, very ...!
11sashame
>10 tungsten_peerts: so far this group has been the most receptive, responsive, and talkative abt the idea, so i might continue posting here in the future! and ya, nei dan goes reeeeeeeeally deep and gets reeeeally weird XD
12elenchus
>6 PeterGMcCarthy:
>8 PeterGMcCarthy:
Silence and language in the mystical tradition are key areas of interest for me. Learning a bit about how various traditions approached those constraints and opportunities would be instructive.
>8 PeterGMcCarthy:
Silence and language in the mystical tradition are key areas of interest for me. Learning a bit about how various traditions approached those constraints and opportunities would be instructive.
13PeterGMcCarthy
Silence has a significant role in mystical practice. Classically, in both Christianity and Buddhism, when people first try to be silent, or meditate, they find it challenging. There’s often a kind of internal chatter that is difficult to stop. This may have something to say about what our day to day experience is like. Mystic writers therefore often represent the practice as a kind of journey with fairly well defined levels, or stages. Again, Buddhists and Christian writers do this, and in the case of the latter, neo Platonism is used.
The higher one goes, the more language is put under pressure. You might reach levels of ‘neither perception nor non perception’. Such a description probably says very little to the uninitiated.
The higher one goes, the more language is put under pressure. You might reach levels of ‘neither perception nor non perception’. Such a description probably says very little to the uninitiated.
14sashame
>13 PeterGMcCarthy: the orthodox "sudden-enlightenment" school of chan buddhism pushed this apophatic approach even further, demanding a radical understanding of silence within nonsilence (and vice versa) from the very outset, dispensing w "stages" of advancement; e.g. in wumen kuan
16sashame
>15 0_o: well if ur interested, i would love to do a book club discussion thread in this group while going thru it from start to finish
anyone else interested? >12 elenchus: >13 PeterGMcCarthy: ?
it wouldnt have to b structured, general taoist philosophy/history also welcome
anyone else interested? >12 elenchus: >13 PeterGMcCarthy: ?
it wouldnt have to b structured, general taoist philosophy/history also welcome
170_o
Sure. I would appreciate an organizer/leader so we can decide to read 50 pages a week (or whatever, no idea how dense/long it is) and it would be good to know if anyone has background with stuff like this.
Should we do it here? I've been a member in other book clubs that talk on discord, which gives you free VoIP.
Should we do it here? I've been a member in other book clubs that talk on discord, which gives you free VoIP.
18sashame
>17 0_o: i was thinking on LT since i would prefer to just use text; if no one else joins in the discussion we could switch to a wall-to-wall convo; do u already have a copy or have a translation in mind?
19Majel-Susan
Haha, this thread seems to have just fizzled out, but sure, I could be interested in such a group, minus the occult stuff for me...
20sashame
>19 Majel-Susan: ya, i dont think theres rly sufficient interest to warrant a group. tho if ur interested in reading or talking abt mystical stuff feel free to message me!
24sashame
>23 tsvga: hello! there didnt seem to be much interest, sadly, but i would love to chat abt all topics mystical if ur interested!
25AztecCelt
Very interested. I'm new to Library Thing but have some ideas for the group if we can get something going.
26sashame
>25 AztecCelt: every once in awhile a person pops up expressing interest, but then fails to respond to further discussion, so i dont think theres quite enough enthusiasm on this site to warrant a group. however, i would love to chat 1-on-1 about mysticism, and would also participate wholeheartedly if you wanted to start some kinda conversation in the "lets talk religion" group (or here)
27eschator83
I'll head to the let's talk religion group with a good bit of skepticism, because it worries me that most manifestations of mysticism are essentially irreligious. Am I wrong to be concerned?
28paradoxosalpha
>27 eschator83: "most manifestations of mysticism are essentially irreligious."
I find this a baffling claim. Maybe it would be a good point of departure for a thread in a mysticism group?
c.f.
>1 sashame: by "mysticism" i mean those traditions generally found within religious movements that emphasize the attainment of altered states of consciousness and perception of hidden truth
I find this a baffling claim. Maybe it would be a good point of departure for a thread in a mysticism group?
c.f.
>1 sashame: by "mysticism" i mean those traditions generally found within religious movements that emphasize the attainment of altered states of consciousness and perception of hidden truth