Countertenors--yay or nay?

I used to enjoy the occasional countertenor voice (or "voicing", for those who see in them falsettists and no more), always in the early/Baroque period (with the exception of Klaus Nomi, who could sing anything). My favourites would be the old/older guard--Deller, Esswood, Michael Chance, Lesne, Jacobs, Scholl...

But then recently I was catching up on record with the sizeable crop of the new(ish) ones and... well, surprisingly, given that I've listened to countertenors for decades and it's not a question of getting used to the quality of the voice, mannerisms etc. ...quite a few sound to me ugly, ridiculous. Not singing opera but mewling, screeching and otherwise murdering opera. Is it the repertoire or new ambitions for voices that can't fulfill them?

The countertenor megastar, Philippe Jaroussky? Sounds like a shrivelled little old lady to me, trembling dried leaves, with a pitiful upper register. But at least he doesn't crack up there like Cencic and Daniels.

I don't mean to impugn their musicianship. No doubt these are tremendous artists. It's just that the more I listen to them the more I thirst for the strength and scope of natural voices. I've realised that I can't think of a single instance where I wouldn't prefer a contralto or a mezzo to a countertenor--that is, where they now treat the countertenor as a lead.

I used to think of the countertenor as a bijou oddity, to be deployed for the beauty of the timbre and only with utmost taste... like a special, strange colour you'd use to underline some rare thought and atmosphere. The lining to the cloud, not THE cloud. Spice, not meat.

It's funny that, before, I felt defensive about liking this voice at all, as if being forced to apologise to the "real" opera fans, but now that it seems to be enjoying unprecedented success in the mainstream, I feel defensive for NOT liking these new guys. (With exceptions for some specific recordings, altho' not feeling hugely enthusiastic about any so far.)

Anyone else feel similar/not at all, etc.?

How do you feel about David Hurley?
https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Hurley-David.htm

Heh, I'd have to say... no idea. If he is or was with the Gabrieli Consort in the 1980s/90s then it's likely I've some recordings with him. However, it's not the countertenor as part of a choral ensemble that's at issue (as I'm finding out); rather, the countertenor as the operatic soloist.

I'm finding the recitals easier on the ear than full operas, probably because the material can be selected, such that the voice is less stressed, although there are exceptions. Jaroussky's Green (various composers setting Verlaine's poetry to music) I ditched within seconds of the first number, by Léo Ferré--simply dreadful. (No reflection on Ferré, whom I love.) He may, as the notes have it, sing this stuff "in his secret garden" and that's exactly where it ought to stay.

But Cencic on Arie napoletane (little known pieces by Porpora, Pergolesi, Alessandro Scarlatti etc.) was a pleasant surprise. I'll be keeping that one.

Heh---googling for opinions on countertenors I came across a thread on a classical music forum (Talk Classical) with almost a word-for-word same topic:

https://www.talkclassical.com/40872-counertenors-yes-no.html

It's an old thread and not all the musical examples survive, but these are still on and fascinating:

Russell Oberlin sings Handel

Russell Oberlin is a true male alto, there's simply no comparison between his naturally high and agile voice and the (usually) strained countertenors. Similarly for Yoshikazu Mera (who, it seems, retained his boyish soprano due to a condition that, er, spared him puberty):

Yoshikazu Mera: Grieg - Solveigs Sang

>2 reconditereader: Hurley was utterly magnificent in McCreesh's recording of Gabrieli's 'San Rocco' music (although he was not performing Gabrieli in the recording). As a rare 'high countertenor' he was unmatched. I haven't heard him recently, so cannot comment on his voice or singing at present.

The counter-tenor is an essential in HIP performances. Hopefully the days of wobbling Mezzos are gone for ever. Whether one likes them or not, they are an inseparable part of the repertory. Disliking them is akin to complaining that, whilst listening to a violin concerto, one doesn't like the fiddle and it should be played on something else!

The counter-tenor is an essential in HIP performances.

The counter-tenor may be, but not a countertenor. :)

Hopefully the days of wobbling Mezzos are gone for ever.

"Wobbling" is a technical problem any voice might exhibit. Not particularly known to affect the mezzo.

But I'll say this for a moderate "wobble"--much easier on the ear than the screechy countertenor.

I haven't heard a mezzo for years. There are only four voices - sop or boy treble, male alto, tenor, and bass. Mezzos and Baritones were created by publishers to allow pieces to be sung by those whose didn't 'fit in' with the establishment...

>8 JacobKirckman: I have a very old CD of Cecilia Bartoli, a mezzo, singing Handel. She's great!

In the mid-80's I heard Esswood perform in a concert in London. Two rows in front of me were two late-adolescent girls. It was apparent, when he began to sing, that they had never heard or heard of a countertenor, for there was suppressed tittering from them and some restlessness. This shocked surprise did not last long. By the end of the first half it was clear that they were entranced. As was I, having only heard recordings up to that point.

In November 2019 I was very fortunate to hear Anthony Roth Costanzo at the Met singing the title role in Philip Glass's Akhnaten. That was an experience I will not forget.

>9 Tess_W:

Is there such a thing as a "very old CD"? If there is, what does that make me?    ;-)

>10 librorumamans:

Is there such a thing as a "very old CD"? If there is, what does that make me?

"Mom, what's an LP?" "It's like a CD, only bigger." "Mom, what's a CD?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakub_J%C3%B3zef_Orli%C5%84ski

On the video, below ... neither Orlinski or the pianist realized that they would have an audience, hence their rather simple garb ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF4YXv6ZIuE

And Handel ... "Up The Dreadful Steep Ascending"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND4vfkNN2Ms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLaILc7cJ0A

and .. "Breaking" into the World of Opera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlNy89H9zA8

>12 Rood:

Thanks for reminding me of that outdoor Vivaldi aria. I love the comment that has appeared since I last watched it:

Biggest crossover in history: David the singing statue and Mark Zuckerberg on piano are playing Vivaldi together.

>12 Rood: On the video, below ... neither Orlinski or the pianist realized that they would have an audience, hence their rather simple garb ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF4YXv6ZIuE

>13 librorumamans: Thanks for reminding me of that outdoor Vivaldi aria. I love the comment that has appeared since I last watched it:

Biggest crossover in history: David the singing statue and Mark Zuckerberg on piano are playing Vivaldi together.

"Simple garb", "David"... I was expecting a naked singer!

Given that many works exist for countertenors, you can't escape them.

Sanya, isn't it the same as having favourite or un-favourite sopranos, tenors, instrumentalists, etc.
In my little world, for example, one is either Callas or Tebaldi. (notice I put Callas first.)

>12 Rood:

Orlinski's not bad, an intelligent singer aware of his scope. But there are many better performances by women of this aria. (ETA: sorry, referring to link copied in >14 Dilara86:)

>15 amandameale:

Well, the question wasn't (I thought my post clear enough?) "should countertenors exist". :) As I wrote above, I've liked and appreciated this voice long enough. My OP was prompted by the current* fad for countertenors (male singers) in opera, which resulted, IMO, in a proliferation of fugly performances and falsettist starlets who may need real day jobs real soon. I found a few I like and many more I don't like, is what it boils down to.

I don't need to tell you this, Amanda, but as it helps to make things clear (at least to my mind), technically there are no parts "for" countertenors (as in specifically singers of male gender), but "countertenor" parts. Who sings what depends (or ought to depend, I suppose) on one's ability. Naturally, this is technically true for any voice.

*Maybe recurrent. Apparently there was a previous vogue in the sixties.

Hi Lola, I chanced upon your blog, had a good laugh at your description of Jaroussky's voice - I usually compare it to the bleating of an old goat in great distress- but also wanted to suggest a few countertenors you may not be familiar with. Now, without wanting to start off an academic discussion on tessitura, some of the following names might be more aptly described as male altos, mezzos and even sopranos. I've dabbled quite some time in singing myself, and am a real melomaniac, with something bordering on an obsession with countertenors... anyway, here goes. My all-time favourite for style, elegance, roundness and pyrotechnics is JJ Orlinski. Heard him live twice. Divine. Up there as well: Reginald Mobley, Chistopher Lowrey (listen to his glorious rendition of gelido in ogni vena!) , tenor/alto/soprano Franco Fagioli even with his myriad mannerisms!, David Hansen for sheer prowess and pyros, Christophe Dumaux, little known Patrick Daley a decade or so ago... I'm not very keen on the timbre of sopranos Samuel Mariño or Bruno de Sa, but they are impressive technicians to say the least. And let's not forget trailblazing Derek Lee Ragin! Please do get back to me, if you feel like it😁 I'm sure there are many more wonderful voices to be discovered...

I've had the pleasure of hearing Reginald Mobley performing with the Handel & Haydn Society several times. Always an enjoyable experience.

And of course Keymon Murrah!!! How could I forget this fullbodied, well-rounded splendid male mezzo... check him out!

Hi wimbxl!

Thanks for the recs. I know and like Derek Lee Ragin, Orlinski came up before... Fagioli--I listened to something* in which he was cast with four? other countertenors, and I had to bail, the sound landscape created was too awful for words, but I will give him a chance in a different setting... ah, here we are, Serse with Delphine Galou and Vivica Genaux, should be good.

Don't know others (tracking recordings as I post...), so thanks again!

ETA: *Artaserse from 2012! the horror, the horror...

Hi Lola, thx for your quick reply! I've just started work again (school after holidays, so swept off my feet😅) but when the dust settles I'll forward some of my all-time favourite recordings... (and maybe also my all-time vocal nightmares😉) grtz

Here's a link to one of Fagioli's concerts. Plus article in Spanish. The man is... well unique. He oozes musicality and passion, has incredible technique and breath, and is blessed with unbelievable tessitura. Listening to it right now to brighten up my 58th birthday😁 Enjoy! https://www.lanacion.com.ar/espectaculos/musica/franco-fagioli-el-argentino-cons...

>22 wimbxl:

Aah, belated happy birthday!

Thanks for the link! That's a nice "Ombra mai fu" he sings--I'm looking forward to getting over the weekend the discs I requested. The article made me realise I stopped paying attention to novelty just about twenty years or so ago... (I'll blame Life, changes in.)

And oh no, I missed that Renata Scotto had died... my first Butterfly.

But I also picked up a priceless new term--el sincericidio--LOL!