Conversation Tree Press: New Fine Press

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Conversation Tree Press: New Fine Press

Editado: Jun 6, 2022, 8:33 am

A new fine press - Conversation Tree Press - first book is a letterpress Peter Pan illustrated by Charles Vess. Interesting choice, continues what I see as a trend of doing children's/YA books in letterpress format.

Jun 5, 2022, 10:03 pm

The press shows good taste in having Simon Brett engrave its press mark.

Jun 5, 2022, 10:36 pm

Now, someone needs to do Winnie-the-Pooh.

Jun 5, 2022, 10:40 pm

>1 punkzip: Nice find, thanks for sharing! I like the work of Charles Vess, this has a lot of promise. Signed up for the mailing list.

Jun 6, 2022, 1:38 am

This has been on my short list for books I love that I'd love to have a fine press edition of. Both "Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens" and "Peter & Wendy" are true classics.

Jun 6, 2022, 2:59 am

More letterpress is always good though I doubt Peter Pan will be for me.

Jun 6, 2022, 6:35 am

Any chance we could get the name of the press inserted into the title of the thread so that we don't lose track of this?

Jun 6, 2022, 8:33 am

>7 whytewolf1: If I started the topic can I change the title? I don't see how...

Jun 6, 2022, 8:45 am

>8 punkzip: I think the Admin can change it. Maybe if you have a moment, you can message jveezer:

Jun 6, 2022, 9:25 am

>9 whytewolf1: You could do it as I don't have a preference one way or the other.

Jun 6, 2022, 11:06 am


Editado: Jun 6, 2022, 11:31 am

>1 punkzip: I may be getting some wires crossed, but is this press from the author of The Book Blog? If so, it's great to see a collector and member of the community take the plunge to start a press of their own!

I think my collecting tastes vary quite a bit from the publisher, but am nevertheless excited to see their edition and very pleased to see they've committed to letterpress printing.

Jun 6, 2022, 11:41 am

>12 NathanOv: Yes Tony Geer, Andy Geer's brother.

Jun 6, 2022, 11:55 am

>11 jveezer: Thank you, sir! :)

Jun 6, 2022, 1:30 pm

I'm digging that Vess illustration on their website.

Jun 6, 2022, 1:38 pm

>15 jveezer: Vess has a sensuous Art Nouveau style to his work, with a dash of Rackham. He's one of the artists I really like for this kind work, alongside P. Craig Russell. I have faith he's going to be a solid fit for this book.

Jun 6, 2022, 4:11 pm

Jun 6, 2022, 10:37 pm

>12 NathanOv: It is indeed!

>13 punkzip: “Yes Tony Geer, Andy Geer's brother.” I have been identified as many worse things, so I’ll take it. We’re actually twins :)

>16 Shadekeep: We couldn’t help but be inspired by Rackham’s Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens, and we’ve paid homage to it in our own way.

I was extremely happy when Charles agreed to collaborate on this edition as I couldn’t think of a present day artist who would be better suited.

I’m very much looking forward to sharing additional details over the next few days and weeks.

For now, I’ll add that Pat Randle at Nomad Letterpress will be printing it and every book will be hand bound at Ludlow Bookbinders.

Jun 6, 2022, 10:50 pm

>18 CTPress-Tony: "I’ll add that Pat Randle at Nomad Letterpress will be printing it and every book will be hand bound at Ludlow Bookbinders."

Those are some impressive bona fides. Do you intend your press to exclusively or primarily focus on children's titles, or will it produce a more varied corpus?

Jun 6, 2022, 11:15 pm

>18 CTPress-Tony: Don't you dare do Winnie-the-Pooh! I'd be forced to perform unspeakable acts to be sure I got one!

Jun 7, 2022, 5:42 am

>18 CTPress-Tony: Looking forward to seeing this!

Editado: Jun 7, 2022, 8:55 am

Jun 7, 2022, 9:08 am

>18 CTPress-Tony: Sounds like a great crew all around! Even more excited to see how this plays out now.

Editado: Jun 7, 2022, 9:59 am

For those of you wondering about price and states, it looks like the prices and states will be in line with Curious King and Lyra's. So standard, numbered, and lettered and you could roughly ballpark the prices (although Dorian did not have a standard so this may not have?).

It looks like it will be on Kickstarter.

Jun 7, 2022, 9:21 am

>22 punkzip: Ah, yes. The Pooh horror movie. Not quite what I had in mind, though.

Jun 7, 2022, 9:31 am

>25 Glacierman: Yes you and not Pooh would be doing the unspeakable acts :). Which spares my childhood.

Jun 7, 2022, 10:53 am

>18 CTPress-Tony:
Does anyone have a list of the various projects that are in the queue for Rich and Ludlow? I hope that things don't bottleneck during the binding process since it feels like a lot of projects are all using the same organization. Their quality has been amazing to date, I'd hate to see them rushing because they have such a backlog.

Jun 7, 2022, 11:29 am

>27 XC: Rich and Ludlow's don't rush, just a longer wait.

Editado: Jun 7, 2022, 11:37 am

>27 XC: Rich recently mentioned having ten different publications in various stages, but totalling it all up that sounds like a low estimate, with 3 upcoming titles at Lyra's, who knows how many of Arete's announced works he was including, 6 announced titles at Curious King (though only 2 likely to be in progess) and now CT as well just off the top of my head.

Always busy it sounds like!

Jun 7, 2022, 1:18 pm

>29 NathanOv: Also Books Illustrated's The Night Circus I believe.

Yes, I think there will be a loooong wait for some of these. It seems to be a fairly immutable law of fine press production that books take at least twice as long as originally planned.

Jun 7, 2022, 4:44 pm

The previously mentioned publishers which are using Ludlow's/Rich Tong - Curious King, Arete, Book Illustrated are are all UK based. It's interesting that a Canadian publisher would be using UK-based printers and binders. Wouldn't this raise costs because of shipping? - which is certainly a factor now, although who know what will happen later.

Jun 9, 2022, 4:24 pm

Okay... I think this will be magnificent. That said, one has to wonder why they do not reproduce Rackham's famous illustrations? Since publication is before 1923, the art should be in the public domain - please correct me if I'm mistaken.

A letterpress Winnie would be big, but that is still under copyright and the illustrations by E. H. Shepard are so iconic that anything else would be blasphemy!

Jun 9, 2022, 6:10 pm

>32 astropi: "A letterpress Winnie would be big, but that is still under copyright...." Not in the U. S. Copyright here expired at the end of 2021.

"the illustrations by E. H. Shepard are so iconic that anything else would be blasphemy!" I know, I know. His illos and the Disney interpretations ARE Pooh to so many. I've got those in abundance. I'd like to see a NEW interpretation! Vive le differénce!

Jun 9, 2022, 6:20 pm

>32 astropi: Rackham's illustrations are iconic, but I'm all for new Charles Vess art!

Jun 9, 2022, 7:38 pm

>33 Glacierman: However, it is still under copyright in the UK. So does this mean that if Pooh is published in the US before the UK copyright expires, it cannot be sold in the UK? Or just that a UK company cannot publish it?

Jun 9, 2022, 9:09 pm

>35 punkzip: It cannot be published in the U. K. until after 2026 when the copyright runs out there. However, should you wish to purchase book legally published in another country and have it shipped to you as a personal purchase, you may do so. You cannot, however, import it for the purpose of re-sale. Like a bookseller might want to do, etc.

Editado: Jun 9, 2022, 9:17 pm

Esta mensagem foi removida pelo seu autor.

Jun 9, 2022, 11:23 pm

>34 NathanOv: Same! As much as I love Rackham's work, it's good to see fresh takes as well. And from what I've seen Vess produce in past, he is up to the task.

We're agitating for a New Pooh in another thread as well, and I think this could certainly use a fresh take on the illustrations. After all, as much as Sidney Paget's illustrations are Sherlock Holmes, it hasn't stopped other artists from producing wonderful takes as well.

Jun 10, 2022, 12:14 am

There are several artists who work in the fantasy realm who are fully capable of doing a new Pooh. I am reminded of Patrick Benson, who did the illustrations for William Horwood's authorized sequel to The Wind in the Willows, The Willows in Winter. and what might Charles van Sandwyck make of Pooh-bear? He sure knocked my socks off with his take on WitW!

Jun 23, 2022, 2:43 pm

The first newsletter has gone out, with lots of info about their forthcoming Peter Pan book. Very good to see Maria Tatar will be writing the Introduction.

Jun 23, 2022, 2:50 pm

>40 Shadekeep: Thanks, that was quick! For those not subscribed, you can see it here:

The newsletter subscription form is at the bottom of every page on the website if anyone is looking for it.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 2:54 pm

I find the rights issues disappointing. Is it something that is needed?

ETA: On reflection I am coming across more negative that I mean to be. This still looks very interesting!

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 2:57 pm

>42 DMulvee: Of the newer entrants I think Arete is the only one which has avoided rights. It’s a way to help drive sales using FOMO. It make sense to me primarily for series.

Jun 23, 2022, 2:58 pm

>43 punkzip: I agree for series, and I agree (kinda) for lettered states (you want to look after your most loyal customers). However I think it is positive in the short term but negative in the medium term if you have a situation (like Suntup) where most books are available on the secondary market at a discount. Buyers no longer feel they should pay the list price and it can be very difficult to change this mindset once developed

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 3:02 pm

>42 DMulvee: >43 punkzip:

I'm not clear on what "rights" means in this situation. Can you explain? Much appreciated!

Strike that, I just got to the Rights page from the email. Now I understand!

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 3:58 pm

>42 DMulvee: I don't necessarily mind limited states having rights for some copies as in this case - I wish though new fine presses would adopt the sensibility of allowing subscriptions without going all-in on a rights system.

I like not having to deal with a competitive preorder for every edition, and to have numbers automatically matched. I strongly dislike any presence of rights on the secondary market.

Jun 23, 2022, 4:15 pm

>43 punkzip: "It's a way to help drive sales using FOMO" - Exactly right, a cheap trick. I cannot help but notice that most or all of the presses that are adopting this rights model have owners that are not actually involved in making the books themsleves. I don't doubt their passion but they are clearly treating it as a business opportunity first and foremost, reacting to the uptick in buyers due to the pandemic, and outright copying other presses models that are perceived as successful.

Jun 23, 2022, 8:24 pm

>47 realto: It is absurd to call a rights system a "cheap trick." There is no cost to acquiring matching rights direct from the publisher. Other industries routinely charge good money for the privilege of advance reservation of "product." Music, theater, and sporting venues have sold season tickets, with guaranteed seating, and often at a premium, for years and years. And people pay in full, in advance, for the year. Matching rights, in contrast, are simply a right of first refusal for the next release, and a reward in part for loyal customers who are purchasing higher-end editions who get to avoid the scrum of open preorders, as long as they care to keep purchasing. No one is forced to acquire or keep rights. Or if you happen to acquire rights incidentally, you are free to ignore them and pretend they do not exist.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is very tiresome to consistently hear the complaints of folks who seem to want to fault businesses for doing anything that even remotely resembles marketing. Artists, artisans, and makers of quality products of all types often grow broke or live in near penury for want of knowledge of marketing or lack of inclination to practice its arts. Bravo to Suntup (and even to the Folio Society) for using anticipation, surprise, FOMO, scarcity, and other marketing tactics to improve their businesses' bottom lines and in many cases, for making collecting their products more fun and exciting for consumers. No one here is a child or a dimwit. If you feel a business's tactics are overly manipulative or are unethical, don't support them. But purity of passion and dedication to the craft without regard for money is not a winning strategy for putting food on the table for your family, paying your rent or mortgage, or being able to pay for a child's education. Grow. Up.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 8:56 pm

>47 realto: >48 whytewolf1: Well this seems a bit heated, but I would not accuse publishers adopting a rights system of gimmic marketing and taking advantage of collectors, nor do I see the pattern of publishers with rights systems just being detatched business people. You don't need to look any further than Richard Tong to know that doesn't hold true.

However, I also don't think it's an issue worth jumping to insults and personal attacks over, and do think the secondary market complications of rights systems and the unnecessary barriers to entry they present for collectors, particularly in cases where many people who do get the chance to buy are not ones who want the book, is a very justified frustration.

It makes me appreciate more niche presses that are still able to maintain subscriber systems without every single copy of every edition getting tied up all the more, and I'm glad to see so many presses including Conversation Tree using a more hybrid model.

Jun 23, 2022, 9:05 pm

>49 NathanOv: What's frustrating to me, frankly, is to see honest business owners indirectly and passive-agressively attacked for using common marketing methods by people who clearly have never spent a single day in a business owner's shoes and seem to know little or nothing about business, in general. It happened repeatedly in that original Suntup thread, it's happened elsewhere, and the great majority of takes on this whole topic (not just of right, but about supposed "gimmicks" and other nonsense) is just not tethered to reality. Oh, and guess who else uses anticipation, surprise, FOMO, scarcity, etc.? Apple. Starbucks. Nike. And dozens of other big brands people go gaga over.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 9:20 pm

>50 whytewolf1: and Apple goes way further than FOMO with planned obsolescence. It's a multi-faceted strategy, if they can't FOMO you into buying a new phone to replace your perfectly fine model, then you're just SOL because it's not supported anymore, anyway. I think I need to go buy a $7 cup of lukewarm mediocre coffee with my dopamine producing phone app to enjoy while reading my Suntup Misery.

and my apology in advance if my sarcasm doesn't play. I'm exhausted. On a serious note, the risk in starting a business like this isn't just a short-term financial one. The opportunity cost of years of your life away from a more traditional career can be devastating to your opportunities. Smart, hardworking people tend to overcome these difficulties but there are no guarantees someone who gave up a career to chase a dream will ever be able to get back to where they once were if their business fails.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 9:22 pm

>50 whytewolf1: "honest business owners indirectly and passive-agressively attacked... by people who clearly have never spent a single day in a business owner's shoes"

I've definitely gotten caught up trying to shut down disparagement of presses, but it has to stay civil and I think your words could be interepreted as direct and not-so-passive agressive attacks of some of the others in this thread. I think you'd also find the second part I quoted isn't quite accurate given some of the larger demographics of fine press collectors.

I agree with some of the sentiments, but none of that's as important as just treating people well whether you agree or not.

Jun 23, 2022, 9:31 pm

>51 SDB2012: You’re quite correct about the enormous risks inherent in starting businesses like these small presses and the difficulty in keeping them running and profitable.

Perhaps, I was a little heated and personal in my previous reply. But a lot of what is said and implied about the entirely common and customary business practices of these wonderful entrepreneurial ventures which bring most of us so much joy, are de facto indictments of the businesses and the owners themselves. If people want to have a discussion or debate about the ethics or effectiveness or even just plain annoyance factor of certain marketing methods, let’s talk about it broadly and in context and discuss why businesses use such tactics, if they’re actually effective, what alternatives might be better, and how they may sometimes even be beneficial to the consumer.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 9:43 pm

For what it's worth I think the rights model is obviously *bad* business. Anybody who adopts it is not being clever or tricky, but is rather not thinking things through. The rights model incentivizes people who don't want a book to buy it nevertheless, and then dump it on the secondary market, undercutting the publisher and cheapening the perceived value of their work.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 10:32 pm

And (again, for what it's worth):

1. There's nothing wrong with operating a press as a business venture first and foremost.

2. The best books are made by those who don't.

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 10:45 pm

>54 grifgon: What do you call this:

“Can I receive the same copy number for every book?

All No Reply books are hand-numbered, meaning that on the colophon page, our publisher marks the copy in the limited edition. (e.g. “You are holding No. 50 of 100.”)

To answer the question: Yes! Many collectors have placed “holds” on particular numbers or letters. This gives a collector the right of first refusal on any edition. In other words, they are given the opportunity to expressly turn the book down before we give it to another. Those who have acquired a decent collection of our books are invited to inquire about placing a hold.”

Editado: Jun 23, 2022, 11:01 pm

>56 What_What: I think the difference between this policy and a rights model are pretty self-explanatory, but it they really do need explaining here they are:

1. In No Reply's model, you don't get a hold on a number simply by buying a book. Holds are ad hoc, and granted by me to collectors I have gotten to know or who deeply care about a certain number.

2. In No Reply's model, you don't lose your number by deciding not to order the latest book. That number just goes to somebody else. That new person, however, doesn't get the hold on the number.

Nobody is incentivized to buy a book they don't actually want.

It's also worth noting that the editions have vastly different sizes and state structures, so you might have a hold on number 77, but that doesn't gaurantee that there will *be* a 77. It's just that, if there is, you have first dibs on that number. It's a right to get the number (if it exists) not to get the book.

And, actually, feedback welcome! If you think the difference between the FAQ quoted above and a rights model *aren't* as self-explanatory as I think, then let me know. Obviously I'd need to rewrite.

Jun 23, 2022, 11:07 pm

>57 grifgon: Thanks for the explanation. It really sounds like both approaches reward serious collectors the way it was described in an earlier comment - allowing some collectors to skip the anxiety of a new launch, while allowing copies to always be available to the public.

Many of the cons being discussed - incentivizing the purchase of books to dump on the secondary market - really seem like cons of subscription models like Arion, Barbarian Press, and Foolscap Press offer, and not necessarily rights. In fact, if it weren’t for the logic-bending consumer behaviour of Suntup fans, I wonder if this would even be a debate - which rational person would continuously purchase books only to sell it back a few months later at a large loss.

Even Suntup said he first had the idea not expecting customers would be so dogged in their pursuit of maintaining their rights, just that it’s a nice bonus, and now he can’t change anything about it.

Jun 23, 2022, 11:19 pm

>57 grifgon: I think the No Reply model is optimal, but it's easy to love because it serves me as a collector with virtually no obligation on my part. I also think the model is more tenable at a place like NRP where it's feasible for the publisher to get to know their customers. I have no idea how engaged a place like Suntup might be with each buyer. I've certainly never talked to them directly.

It may turn out that the rights model proposed by Conversation Tree is an early exploration, and one subject to revision once they see how it plays out. But I do get the feeling that they are going to be closely engaged with their collectors, as NRP is.

Jun 23, 2022, 11:28 pm

>48 whytewolf1: I think that there have been multiple comments on different threads recently when you have put down those whose opinions you disagree with. It is possible to disagree with people without resorting to this.

You seem to be wilfully missing the point. If a book sells out in 1 day (or quicker), then the publisher has made a mistake. This isn’t the desired outcome. I’m not sure what the optimal time would be (1-3 months?) but sometimes even amazing productions takes years to sell out. If you sell out too quickly then the publisher got their pricing (or limitation size) wrong. We are supportive of the publisher here. However would prefer that the publishers made a good profit, rather than the books selling out in 10 minutes, and then being available at triple the cost on the secondary market. If a book sells out in 3 months, then the rights issue isn’t important - those that want the book have had an opportunity to buy the book. The rights only become worthwhile if the book sells out before people get a chance to buy it.

Editado: Jun 24, 2022, 12:38 am

>58 What_What: But assigning rights with purchase does not "reward serious collectors," it rewards whoever clicked fastest. It says, "Buy X because then you are guaranteed the right to buy Y, which might be something you *actually* want (or think others will want)." Any model which incentivizes people to buy books they don't actually want is BAD. Bad for people (FOMO, addiction, etc.) and bad for business (devalued books, constrained editioning, etc.)

>60 DMulvee: You are absolutely, positively, three hundred percent correct. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Selling out the same edition in 5 minutes or 5 months makes no difference from a financial perspective to a press with a healthy business model. In fact, if selling out in 5 months means that more copies can be sold, the price can be adjusted to reflect demand, and the books go to collectors rather than speculators, thus constricting supply, then selling out in 5 months is FAR better.

By the way, Tony, all this business model talk is interesting and all but mostly I'm just excited to see what you come up with and hope that you find it fulfilling and not *too* stressful! I think you should reconsider pursuing a rights model but it's (literally) not my business, so more power to you regardless. I haven't read any Peter Pan myself, so yours will be my introduction!

Jun 24, 2022, 12:11 am

>60 DMulvee: Case in point, Foolscap's The Travels of Sir John Mandeville Beyond the Holy Land took well over a year to sell out 100 copies but in the end, all copies were sold before being finished and there are no copies for sale on the secondary market. The people who really wanted this title have it while the publishers sold out the limitation. No rush and everyone but speculators won out.

Editado: Jun 24, 2022, 12:47 pm

>60 DMulvee: So, let's address these things one at a time. I did admit that I, perhaps, got a little sharp-edged in this particular discussion, and I have used actual facts to criticize often baseless *ideas and assertions* in other threads. I guess some people may take that personally. It is interesting, however, that the following seems to be within the realm of permissible behaviors in these forums-- permissible, in the sense that one does not get awarded any cute little red flags for engaging in said behavior:

* It is okay, apparently, for a brand-new person to show up in the forums, to make personally-targeted, defamatory, and perhaps even libelous, remarks about a respected publisher. The result, in this case, was not tiny red flags, but the person being treated with deference and kid gloves.

* It is okay, apparently, as was seen in one of the sister-groups to this group, for multiple people to recommend avoiding buying books on a certain platform because (as they baselessly assert, without offering evidence), there seems to be a concerted effort by members of that platform (including presumably the admins) to conspire to keep prices artificially high for books sold there.

* It is also okay, apparently, for people to directly impugn the business practices and to personally ascribe nefarious motives to small publishers, such as Paul Suntup, who has been accused (among other things) of purposely underproducing relative to demand in order to keep secondary market prices high, and to all the publishers who are using rights systems, since it has been determined that such systems, as they have been variously described, are cheap tricks and inherently manipulative.

It seems that when folks are not directly privy to discussions here, they may be maligned at will. But it is not okay to directly confront bad ideas or baseless assertions since some people may take offense at that. Check. Just want to be clear on things.


Next topic: "If a book sells out in 1 day (or quicker), then the publisher has made a mistake. This isn’t the desired outcome."

Incorrect. The PRIMARY objective of selling through available inventory at a profitable price has clearly been met. Is an ultra-quick sell-out ideal in all circumstances? Perhaps not. But it's a common saying in business to not allow the "perfect" to be the enemy of the "good."

"I’m not sure what the optimal time would be (1-3 months?) but sometimes even amazing productions takes years to sell out. If you sell out too quickly then the publisher got their pricing (or limitation size) wrong."

We have some highly questionable assumptions here about the available remedies to the alleged problem of a quick sell-out:

Assumption #1 is that the publisher generally has broad discretion when it comes to the limitation size. But the reality is that the edition size is often directly circumscribed by the rightsholders who, I know for a fact, often impose strict limits on edition sizes, based on their own incentives, disincentives, and concerns, that have little to do with the publisher's wants, needs, or opinions. And let's not forget that there is a push-and-pull that happens in the minds of many collectors when it comes to the attractions of scarcity and exclusivity (which are achieved by lower edition sizes) and access and availability (which are typically only achieved by higher edition sizes), relative to the price being paid for the book.

Assumption #2 is that the pricing can be sufficiently adjusted (upward) to solve the "problem" of a quick sell-out without becoming detached from objective value and without outraging a sizable portion of collectors. So, let's take Suntup as an example: The numbered edition of The Silence of the Lambs was in very high demand and was an instant sell-out, even though Suntup had recently managed to raise the edition size of the numbered editions to 350 copies from 250. And let's assume that he couldn't have raised the limitation any more. So, instead of pricing this at $475 (the actual retail), he decided to sell it at $775 to find the proper intersection between perceived value (specific to this title) and demand. To be fair, this is a solid business tactic, and in some industries, you can totally get away with it or something close to it (e.g. concerts, sporting events). But in our little book collecting world, can you imagine the blowback if he prices that $475 edition at $775? If you can't, I can. It would be bad. And how are they supposed to answer questions about why the price is so high? "Well, we knew there was going to be tremendous demand for this title, and we were limited to how many we could produce, so we priced it to demand." Cue the many loud calls of "rip-off" and "mercenary profiteering."

Oh, and Assumption #3 is that 12-24 months out (or even the day before release) that a publisher can reliably predict the demand for each individual title to the point where they can balance supply, pricing, and customer goodwill so that nothing sells out too quickly and almost no one gets irritated, without occasionally making some disastrously bad estimations on any one of those fronts, and winding up with a very bad release.

Bottom Line: There is no perfect system of fair access to these products. Foregoing a rights system for No Reply and Areté is probably the right call for their particular business models and editorial line-ups. For other publishers, it's probably less bad, in terms of fairness, than other options, AND it is highly advantageous to the publisher since like subscription models (e.g. Arion), which it actually closely resembles, it provides a form of recurring revenue for the publisher, something which is huge boon to businesses as it helps to provide stable and predictable revenue which then, in turn, supports a solid financial foundation.

Jun 24, 2022, 12:33 pm

>62 kdweber: I think your example is the optimal case of balancing the best for both the publisher and collector. The collector doesn't miss out by not being there for the first hour the book goes on sale, and the publisher isn't left having to hold stock long after publication. Obviously there are other balances, ones which shade more in favor towards the publisher or the collector, but my Panglossian side is drawn towards this balanced case where everyone comes out well.

Jun 24, 2022, 12:36 pm

Look forward to seeing this edition!

Not a big fan of rights, primarily because I don't want to be incentivised to buy a book I don't really want, to try and not miss out on a later (hypothetical) book that I do really want.

Editado: Jun 24, 2022, 12:39 pm

>64 Shadekeep: With respect, he gives an example of what many might consider an ideal outcome but does not really offer any ideas on how such an outcome might be achieved by publishers. Or did I miss something (honest question)?

Jun 24, 2022, 12:54 pm

>66 whytewolf1: It was just the example from what I read, though I may have missed earlier elaborations regarding it. I'm not sure there is one way to always guarantee such an outcome, as there are too many vicissitudes in the book market to be certain how things will play out. I suspect Foolscap has just been in the game long enough to have a sense how their efforts will be received and can plan accordingly. But they are probably surprised at times, too!

I try not to tell any publisher how to run their business, that's entirely up to them. My involvement comes in solely when I choose to buy their books or not. But my preference is when publishers have quantities and prices that are fair to the people who want the books, while also being fair to themselves in regards to time and effort. No one should have to go broke just so I can have nice things, after all.

At the moment the only publisher who I buy from but also have issues with is Centipede Press. I have been tracking Powers of Darkness for months, waiting for the moment when I can reserve it. And yet I know with a surety that I will miss it, and there is sod all I can do about that. Do they personally owe me a chance to buy the book? No. Does it still rankle and is it likely to put me off ever buying from them again? Absolutely.

Jun 24, 2022, 12:56 pm

While rights may give rights-holders the ability to avoid a race to buy new releases, interestingly, the rights are often a cause of the race to begin with.

For example, the CK Blade Itself numbered, which carried rights to the next series, sold out in minutes.

The standard state OTH, despite being the best value in recent memory and substantially less expensive than the numbered, took perhaps 8-9 hours to sell out a 500 limitation (still very fast, but open to almost everyone who was paying attention). Notably, this did not carry rights to the next series.

Jun 24, 2022, 1:10 pm

>66 whytewolf1: This is a fine point. Easy to throw stones but harder to build houses.

>67 Shadekeep: "I suspect Foolscap has just been in the game long enough to have a sense how their efforts will be received and can plan accordingly."

Exactly right.

Jun 24, 2022, 1:14 pm

>68 punkzip: "Notably, this did not carry rights to the next series"

You are correct literally, but just to clarify, the standard edition does come with rights to other books in the series and other Abercrombie titles they might release in the future.


Limited to 500 copies only, ... This edition comes with rights to “Before they Hanged” and “Last Argument of Kings” (as well as any future abercrombie works we do) but does not come with rights to rights to our other titles. ...


Jun 24, 2022, 2:38 pm

>67 Shadekeep: I can remind you in the CP thread if and when Jerad pre-announces the sale date.

>63 whytewolf1: This was a very worthwhile read.

Jun 24, 2022, 2:50 pm

>67 Shadekeep: Hey. I appreciate you elaborating on all of that. I basically agree with everything you said here. Even about Centipede! lol but their essential problem is that they’re a bit of an inefficient mess because it’s basically a one-man operation over there. Not much you can really do about that. I’ve had similar frustrations with them at times. But their intentions are good and they produce really nice books.

Jun 24, 2022, 2:56 pm

>71 What_What: Very kind of you! I also took the unorthodox, and most likely socially impolite, move of writing to Jerad directly and telling him that would gladly purchase an unnumbered, unsigned extra at full price should any spool out of production. He did very kindly write back to say that there will be 700 copies available and I should have a chance at it, but I really think this one is going to be descended upon by the speculators. It just has too much "brand name recognition" attached, making it an easy mark-up resale item.

Jun 30, 2022, 1:53 pm

>48 whytewolf1: Not sure why my comment turned out to be so controversial, sorry if I offended you. I was just stating the obvious, that these new presses increasingly resemble one another and that the rights system is not especially nuanced, rather it is an obvious attempt at capturing an audience not based on quality or a track record of success but on FOMO. If this observation is worth throwing a tantrum over, I'm not sure I'm the one who needs to "grow up". I wish every letterpress endeavour nothing but success.

Jul 12, 2022, 2:13 pm

Details have been posted now about Standard State Limited Edition of Conversation Tree Press' Peter Pan.

Looking very nice indeed, and the asking price of $275 for this limitation of 500 sounds quite reasonable.

Jul 12, 2022, 2:32 pm

I’m not overly keen on Peter Pan, but I would be a buyer at that price

Jul 12, 2022, 2:34 pm

>76 DMulvee: Agreed, and I love that binding as well

Jul 12, 2022, 2:39 pm

The novels themselves aren't high on my list, but this edition being letterpress, featuring Charles Vess art, and having such a gorgeous binding is a compelling purchase for me.

Editado: Jul 12, 2022, 3:24 pm

$275 is a good price. Not as good a deal as the recent Blade Itself standard state, but enough that I will likely get a standard even though I don't particularly care for Peter Pan.

Editado: Jul 13, 2022, 1:43 pm

Absolutely lovely production. And at a great price too considering the letterpressed printing. I’ll keep following closely this new publisher.

I have no interest whatsoever in owning a fine edition of Peter Pan, so I’ll sadly have to pass. But they definitely have my attention for whatever they come up with next.

Jul 15, 2022, 12:32 pm

>78 Shadekeep: My thinking is the same

Jul 15, 2022, 12:38 pm

I think this is a nascent press to watch, and could potentially produce an appealing line of letterpress books at moderate prices (relative to other letterpress books). From the website:

"The Press aims to utilize the traditions of fine press book making—letterpress printing, hand binding, fine materials, and a harmonious design—in the creation of books of historical, cultural and social significance. This will see books published in a range of genres, including fantasy, science fiction, horror, weird fiction and contemporary fiction."

Editado: Jul 15, 2022, 12:55 pm

>82 ultrarightist: "Weird fiction"

I'd like to know what they have planned there! It's about all I follow genre presses for, with some of my favorite authors at home at Sub Press, so I'd love to see them get the true fine press treatment.

Jul 15, 2022, 1:40 pm

>83 NathanOv: same here, though I follow some classic fantasy as well.

True fine press editions of Blackwood's The Willows, Hodgson, etc., would be potentially glorious.

Jul 15, 2022, 3:53 pm

>82 ultrarightist: Agreed, they have promise if they deliver on their vision. And count me among those here who are hoping to seem some fine press weird fiction from them. Hodgson especially.

Editado: Jul 15, 2022, 4:05 pm

>85 Shadekeep: I have not read any Hodgson. What about his writing appeals to you especially?

Jul 15, 2022, 4:41 pm

>86 ultrarightist: A lot of his work is nautical horror, which I enjoy very much. I like "remote horror" in general, where the action takes place in isolated places like the ocean, uninhabited wilds, remote communities, or even space. He has a vivid imagination for horror that sets it firmly in the real world, while infusing it with the weird and uncanny (a good example is the short story The Stone Ship). Among his non-nautical works The House On The Borderland and the Carnacki - Ghost Finder are highly recommended. His epic The Night Land is better tackled later. He was a powerful influence on Lovecraft and others.

Editado: Jul 15, 2022, 5:30 pm

>87 Shadekeep: well now I need to read some Hodgson!

I love polar fiction, with polar horror a favorite subset, but a lot of the elements you just described are what I really like about it.

Jul 15, 2022, 5:32 pm

>87 Shadekeep: Interesting, thanks.

Jul 16, 2022, 5:16 am

>82 ultrarightist: 'This will see books published in a range of genres, including fantasy, science fiction, horror, weird fiction and contemporary fiction.'

I think it's wonderful we're seeing these new letterpress presses popping up (Arete, Books Illustrated, Curious King, Conversation Tree...), and they all seem to have quite grand plans. Conversation Tree intend the wide genre coverage above, Arete's have mentioned 5+ books in the pipeline, Curious King have at least two 3-volume series in the works. Great, but what interests (concerns?) me slightly is that they're all using Ludlow Bookbinders/Rich Tong, who themselves have their own lines - Lyra's Press and Lyra's Classics - to look after (and which presumably they'll want to prioritise?). Surely there will be a bottleneck here and at the current rate of production I can't see any of these presses being able to release more than one book a year. This year, at nearly 7 months in, we've had Hand and Eye's Wind in the Willows and Arete's Death and Honey completed, and one more (Lyra's Classics' Dorian) apparently close to completion. more than 5-6 books a year possible, in total and across all presses? This is not a criticism of Ludlow's/Rich btw, in fact the opposite - I think it's wonderful that they take their time to achieve the highest quality, which speaks for itself. I'm just interested as to how many books these new presses think they'll realistically be able to release. Perhaps Ludlow's are planning an expansion, but I hope it doesn't come at the expense of quality.

Jul 16, 2022, 9:34 pm

>88 NathanOv: Indeed, polar horror is a favorite of mine as well! Like the ocean, the environment itself is a danger, above and beyond whatever lurks within it.

Editado: Jul 28, 2022, 12:50 pm

Just got an email with details of the numbered. I wasn't planning on getting this regardless as Peter Pan is not that meaningful to me (may get a standard). $775 does seem a bit high for a public domain book (compare Lyra's Dorian for example), but maybe inflation?

Editado: Jul 28, 2022, 1:08 pm

>92 punkzip: Wow, what a beautiful binding design!

At March conversion rates, this is actually very comparably priced to Dorian - I'd chock price differences up more to CT probably having higher cost with the outsourced binding, and all of the additional factors such as the binding materials, that gold tooling and the foil stamped cover.

Jul 28, 2022, 1:06 pm

>92 punkzip: I agree. It looks nice, but I don’t want to spend that much on Peter Pan.

Jul 28, 2022, 2:02 pm

>92 punkzip: It’s not public domain in the UK actually. Rights are held in perpetuity by a hospital and they require royalties for all sales there.

Jul 28, 2022, 2:07 pm

>95 What_What: Does that apply only to editions produced and copies sold in the UK, or anywhere in the world?

Jul 28, 2022, 2:17 pm

>96 ultrarightist: Sorry for not being clear - my understanding is royalties for all sales there as in sales in the UK.

Editado: Jul 28, 2022, 3:22 pm

>95 What_What: fascinating. I was all ready to critique this, but it turns out that the very legislation that abolishes perpetual copyright generally in the UK (the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act of 1988) makes a special exception for... Peter Pan!

J. M. Barrie's 1904 play Peter Pan, although out of copyright, is covered by special legislation granting Great Ormond Street Hospital a right to royalties in perpetuity. Specifically, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 provides that the hospital trustees are entitled to a royalty "in respect of any public performance, commercial publication or communication to the public of the whole or any substantial part of the play or an adaptation of it." (Source)

Could Peter Pan be the one intellectual property in the entire world granted perpetual copyright, to some hospital? (I exaggerate slightly for effect.) I am sure that the goal is noble, but it does seem a bit absurd.

Jul 28, 2022, 4:19 pm

>98 abysswalker: Seems absurd to me as well, regardless of which institution benefits from it.

Editado: Jul 28, 2022, 8:27 pm

More info about the Peter Pan perpetual copyright. FWIW, the hospital does not receive royalties on US sales. So it is public domain book in the US. Perpetual copyright is never warranted IMO.

Editado: Set 5, 2022, 3:08 pm

They are certainly going large, and ambitious, on the weird front - 20 volumes released over a decade or so. The rights situation could be disappointing since, while I definitely would be interested in some of the planned authors, I wouldn't be in all of them. I suppose time will tell how this plays out. Still, this should be welcome news for many here.

Set 5, 2022, 2:58 pm



Set 5, 2022, 3:26 pm

>101 AMindForeverVoyaging: what a great series! I hope the first comes soon and is a solid success.

Set 5, 2022, 3:38 pm

Very excited for this, especially with Joshi’s involvement as curator.

Set 5, 2022, 4:37 pm

Set 6, 2022, 7:56 am

The forthcoming Weird series intrigues me as well. I love that Hodgson is one of the featured portraits on the announcement, too. It sounds like it will vary from other similar lines, such as the weird fiction collections from Centipede Press, in significant ways of production. Looking forward to more details!

Out 8, 2022, 6:30 pm

is there any word about the lettered announcement and eventual preorder date for peter pan?

Out 8, 2022, 8:16 pm

The Lettered prototype is approved and in hand. Photos, shipping/ordering details and a date for preorders will be coming within the next week. It has been pretty quiet but we’ve been busy, I appreciate your patience.

Out 13, 2022, 2:51 pm

Peter Pan pre-order date has been announced to email subscribers. All three states will become available for order at the same time. I don't know if the exact date and time are intended to be restricted to just email subscribers, hence the lack of further details here.

Editado: Out 13, 2022, 3:27 pm

>108 CTPress-Tony: Now that the pre-order is formally announced (and the lettered state is pretty impressive - it looks like more thought went into this than most lettered states), the question I have is: what is CTP's wheelhouse - if there is one?

Currently there is Peter Pan, and the Weird line - which has a completely separate rights system. These 2 releases are very different and it's difficult to get an idea of what the direction of the press will be.

What will the next release be - the title following Peter Pan - or the first Weird release?

Separate from the Weird line, will there be any general focus of the line to follow Peter Pan? This would be relevant to this pre-order, at least for anyone considering an early purchase of the numbered for rights.

Out 13, 2022, 3:32 pm

>111 punkzip: Hopefully Tony has a chance to reply directly, and I'd also love a tease of the next title, but here's what they've shared already:

"The press will see books published in a range of genres, including fantasy, science fiction, horror, weird fiction and contemporary fiction... I will print small editions in small limitations in my own workshop under the imprint Conversation Tree Press Editions, and publish larger editions in larger limitations under Conversation Tree Press."

I'd be curious to hear if "Conversation Tree Press Editions" will branch of in anyway from the main press rights system, particularly with the smaller limitations.

I assume the Weird series will fall under the larger limitation Conversation Tree Press banner?

Out 13, 2022, 3:46 pm

>112 NathanOv: The description says they will publish genre and contemporary fiction - that doesn’t give much guidance frankly - sounds like almost anything except for classic literary fiction?

Editado: Out 13, 2022, 8:51 pm

>108 CTPress-Tony: are there going to be pictures of the text block available before the preorder opens?

Editado: Out 13, 2022, 10:25 pm

>114 jsg1976: Most of these prototypes are just blank leaves of the actual paper intended for the various states, but using the final version of the binding. At least that's my experience with what Lyra's, Curious King and Suntup does. They did make a Facebook post sharing some considerations for their internal text layout, back on August 29 which can be found at this link .

Out 14, 2022, 4:26 am

How do fellow members feel about the lettered state? It kinda has that elusive immediate craving factor for me (though hopefully cooler-head thinking will prevail!)

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 9:13 am

>116 BorisG: The lettered state is definitely one of the most well-thought out designs I've seen for a lettered state, and includes some things - handmade paper with hand-drawn watermark, custom typography on the spine, etc. which haven't been present in other lettered states. The illustrations are printed glicee - not sure if this is different than most other lettered states? The printing plate is nice, although I've seen that included in the recent Edgar Rice Burrough's release (at a much lower price point).

I was interested briefly but then remembered that I don't really want a $2700 version of Peter Pan (looking at my purchases over the past year, I've spent in this price range numerous times, but they have been for books like 1984, Handmaid's Tale and Don Quixote which mean more to me) . In fact, I'm still debating whether I want the deluxe version, given that Peter Pan just doesn't mean that much to me. So I think the question is: how much does the book itself mean to you? Based on the physical book itself, it definitely looks good as far as lettered states go.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I'm also uncertain what CTP's actual direction in terms of future books will be, so that makes the rights issue less relevant (in general lettered rights aren't that easy to obtain going forward for some publishers).

Out 14, 2022, 11:16 am

>117 punkzip: I have the same doubts regarding the book itself! It’s just the design which appeals quite a bit.

The deluxe I don’t find very attractively, so, paradoxically, it’s between the lettered and the numbered.

Or none at all. Which, I keep reminding myself, is a perfectly valid option!

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 11:26 am

>118 BorisG: I think between Charles Vess’ art and the thoughtful text samples sure to be done spectacularly by Nomad, they’ve sold me on the book itself. Otherwise, I’d have the same doubts about Peter Pan.

I just wish there was clarity on the next title, as the upgrade to the numbered edition (which I find stunning, but again am not terribly attached to Peter Pan) would be well worth it to avoid the hassle of what’s sure to be a competitively chaotic preorder for the first Weird title.

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 11:41 am

>119 NathanOv: The deluxe is numbered - I think you and BorisG may be referring to the standard, which is unnumbered.

Peter Pan will not carry rights to the Weird line - that has a completely separate rights track.

"The Weird collection will have its own set of rights starting from Volume 1, which will branch off from the most recently published book at that time"

I don't anticipate that copies of Peter Pan will be too hard to come by as long as one doesn't dally too long. It will probably be similar (or slower) to Lyra's Dorian, which took about a week to sell out the numbered. I'd be surprised if the Weird release is that competitive - Lovecraft aside a lot of the authors aren't that well-known and it's hard to say what the market is for a line of 20 letterpress Weird books using the Suntup 3 state formula. I think Centipede has it right: better than trade editions, but not too expensive, and just one state.

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 12:11 pm

>120 punkzip: I only referred to the numbered.

And like you said, rights to the Weird series branch off from the most recent CT Press title - which one could assume to be Peter Pan based on the order of announcements, but is still unclear.

I think you’ll be surprised by the market for weird fiction! Bierce, Blackwood, Dunsany, Chambers etc. all have significant followings and very few fine press editions.

Out 14, 2022, 12:28 pm

>121 NathanOv: "And like you said, rights to the Weird series branch off from the most recent CT Press title - which one could assume to be Peter Pan based on the order of announcements, but is still unclear."

This should definitely be clarified by CTPress-Tony here. Here are 2 possibilities:

1) The first title in the Weird line will have rights from whichever CTP book immediately preceded it. After that the Weird rights will be separate. So I suppose this means that if one doesn't order the first Weird title, one still have rights to the non-Weird line.

2) The first Weird line title will be a completely open public sale, with rights coming from that sale.

The wording makes it seem like 1 is the case. But to me, 2 makes more sense, since the Weird line would be so different than Peter Pan, if that is the preceding book.

I know their is a fan base for weird fiction - I just don't know what the market would be for a 20 book very expensive (compared to CP) line using the 3 state model - particularly once one gets past the best known authors.

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 12:42 pm

>122 punkzip: “ I just don't know what the market would be for a 20 book very expensive (compared to CP) line using the 3 state model - particularly once one gets past the best known authors.”

If what you’re saying is “no way they sellout the standard state,” and considering that a problem based on your comparisons to Suntup and Centipede, those two publishers are very much outliers from most fine presses.

Instant sellouts are atypical and not essential to the success of a press, and available stock is by and large a good thing as long as the press can accommodate it.

Out 14, 2022, 3:07 pm

>117 punkzip: Yeah. No doubt most know the Peter Pan story but the original text is a rather dull read, particularly Kensington Gardens, and a colorful and abridged children's hardback will be fine and dandy for most. $2750, or even $300 for that matter, buys a lot of books and the "pretty" factor only goes so far. Definitely one I wouldn't want fine edition of! I will go the >118 BorisG: "none at all!" way for this one and will stay tuned for future books.

>123 NathanOv: "Instant sellouts are atypical and not essential to the success of a press, and available stock is by and large a good thing as long as the press can accommodate it."

You're right of course but this owner seems to be going the hype route and hoping for FOMO-pressured sales. At the same time, the preorder page is unnecessarily complicated. You nearly need an engineering degree to understand the shipping rate table - har har!

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 4:29 pm

>112 NathanOv: Yes, Weird. will fall under the CTP banner, which I think of as our "bigger books."

>114 jsg1976: What_What shared a link to Facebook (thanks), but here's the image in the interest of saving a few clicks:

Note that the image wasn't cleaned up for letterpress as yet and there was work yet to be done with regards to the typography. I'm using the Van de Graaf canon as the base for the my layouts, and in the case of Peter Pan, sticking to it pretty strictly, as least at this moment. And indeed, the prototypes have blank leaves in them, but use the correct paper for each state and the correct page count.

>117 punkzip: Thank you for the kind words about the lettered. As far as I know a few books have had the frontispiece printed giclee but not all the colour plates, so this may be first, though I'm happy to be corrected if not.

>122 punkzip: It's the first option - rights stemming from the title published before the first Weird. volume.

Out 14, 2022, 4:58 pm

>125 CTPress-Tony: So no hints on whether the next release will be the first Weird book or something else?

Out 14, 2022, 5:27 pm

>125 CTPress-Tony: "It's the first option - rights stemming from the title published before the first Weird. volume."

Are you planning to publish another book between Peter Pan and the first Weird volume?

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 5:45 pm

>125 CTPress-Tony: The book looks beautifully made, especially the lettered edition. The subject is not my cup of tea but I'm sure it is for many and I wish you the best of luck on your new business. It truly looks magnificent.

Out 14, 2022, 6:01 pm

>124 skipjack3: I'm curious as to what has been done or said that makes you think this publisher is going for anything related to FOMO? I'll leave the hype bit alone as I think most every business in the world wants to generate excitement around their product, so the comment seems pointless

I'd also like to know where you get your information about the preorder page being so complicated? The preorder page is currently password protected and not available. Maybe you need an engineering degree to get into it at this point, but you certainly can't view it.

Editado: Out 14, 2022, 9:50 pm

>128 Joshbooks1: Very kindly said, thank you!

>126 punkzip:
>127 ultrarightist: The next book published will not be a Weird. volume. While we have started pre-production on our weird fiction volumes, our other books are further along. I'll have a few more details to share next week.

Out 17, 2022, 12:10 pm

The Collectible Book Vault has published its third installment of “Minds Of The Press” and you guessed it, Tony Geer of Conversation Tree Press is the interviewee!

Out 24, 2022, 2:38 pm

Nice article posted by the press: Upcoming Artist Collaborations.

It's an exciting bunch of artists, and I'm particularly pleased to see Omar Rayyan mentioned.

Out 24, 2022, 3:16 pm

>132 Shadekeep: I’d be more interested in hearing about the titles they will be illustrating!

Out 26, 2022, 10:10 am

Just a reminder that Peter Pan will open up for ordering in a couple hours.

Editado: Out 26, 2022, 12:12 pm

And 9 minutes into the sale, the Lettered Limited Edition is sold out. Picked up a Standard Limited myself.

Out 26, 2022, 12:18 pm

I'm also quite happ to have picked up a Standard Edition. The Deluxe Edition is still available. The run on that doesn't seem to be as big as on Coraline.

Editado: Nov 20, 2022, 9:58 am

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Editado: Nov 20, 2022, 9:58 am

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Out 27, 2022, 1:42 pm

Not a bad showing at all, especially for an unproven press. Guesses about the success of upper tiers usually include accounting for speculators, who are hoping to be able to flip the book later at a profit. But by no means do I think this accounts for the majority of those sales, merely that it's a probable factor.

Editado: Out 27, 2022, 4:40 pm

>138 supercell: I think the rate of lettered and numbered sales is about what I would have expected, with the standard selling slightly slower than I would have expected.

The higher states will always sell faster because of rights.

The lettered sold out almost immediately because of rights - it's really hard to get lettered states after the first go as it's a lottery with a handful of copies at best. So basically if you don't get the lettered you may never get another lettered from the publisher.

The numbered will likely take at least a week (and I suspect quite a bit more time than that) to sell out. The numbered Dorian took about a week to sell out and there were fewer copies I think, as well as no standard state . Public domain titles like Dorian and Peter Pan are never going to be as popular as the copyrighted author-signed genre titles (e.g. Coraline, Blade Itself). And as you mentioned the economy plays a role.

Standard states for even the most popular titles almost never sell out really quickly (even the Blade Itself standard took about 9 hours as I recall). Having said that it's a bit surprising that the deluxe sold more copies than the standard in the first 24 hours. Rights for sure, but the title itself may not be as popular as some others separate from rights.

I decided to pass on this myself. Very well thought out production, and a decent value. I just don't care enough about Peter Pan. Hopefully the next book will be announced soon.

Editado: Out 28, 2022, 9:37 pm

>137 supercell: "Interestingly, it is the higher states that seem to have done best so far - something to do with securing the rights?"

I do think that's part of it. But also, in a more uncertain economy, oftentimes those who purchase numbered and lettered books are also best positioned to weather any downturns, whereas those who more typically purchase standard states may be more vulnerable to a sudden downturn. I think that may be part of it, too.

>140 punkzip: "I decided to pass on this myself. Very well thought out production, and a decent value. I just don't care enough about Peter Pan. Hopefully the next book will be announced soon."

I think the work itself undoubtedly plays a large part. I have at least one close friend who's also a serious collector (I purchased a copy of the deluxe state), and he has stated that he's very interested in the publisher, thinks that Peter Pan is an excellent production, and absolutely decided to pass because he has no interest in the work itself. But like yourself, he's very interested in what's coming next from the Press, and I expect he will become a customer in the near future.

Editado: Out 29, 2022, 10:12 am

>138 supercell: "As far as I was able to figure out, 26/26 lettered, 115/200 deluxe and 107/500 standard copies were sold during the first 24 hours of the pre-sale (i.e., 248/726 copies in total)."

I just checked and it looks like 109/200 deluxe and 105/500 standard have been sold - which is lower than the numbers you posted after 24 hours. I think my method is accurate as I just added as many to the cart as I could (it won't let you check out as you can only order 2 standard and 1 numbered, but there is a limit to how many can be in the cart, which I assume is the number available). Assuming these figures are accurate, the standard is selling quite slowly for sure.

Editado: Nov 20, 2022, 9:57 am

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Out 29, 2022, 10:56 am

>143 supercell: I suspect there were a certain number of FOMO purchasers who cancelled when they figured out that the deluxe and standard were not selling out any time soon.

Out 29, 2022, 11:44 am

>144 punkzip: "certain number of FOMO purchasers" aka flippers

Out 29, 2022, 4:01 pm

>145 ultrarightist: that does beg the question how many book flippers are there? I know there are tons of Easton Press flippers, because EP is easy to acquire here in the USA and fairly inexpensively too. I would imagine that once you get to fairly expensive fine-pres territory the numbers go down... but maybe not?

Also, how many people think the "standard edition" is more attractive than the "deluxe"?

Votar: The standard version is more attractive than the deluxe.

Resultado actual: Sim 12, Não 24, Indeciso 2

Editado: Out 30, 2022, 9:36 am

There has been a lot of debate about rights here. I think that the pattern of sales here does show that rights are definitely advantageous for a press when selling expensive states of a title without a lot of intrinsic demand.

Consider that the lettered state sold out 26 copies at $2695 in minutes, while the standard state - the only state without rights - has only sold 105/500 to this date, despite being about 1/10 of the price at $275, and also has been outsold by the $775 numbered state. To me, this huge discrepancy between the lettered and standard sales suggests that the sales are to a great extent, probably quite a bit more than other recent releases, driven by rights (access to future publications). This may be because there is not a lot of intrinsic demand for a fine press version of Peter Pan.

If you are publishing a title with a lot of intrinsic demand (e.g. a Gaiman title), you don't need rights. Whether or not rights are advantageous for the consumer is up for debate or course (I am not a fan of rights systems myself), but from the press perspective, it definitely makes sense, particularly for expensive versions of all but the most desired titles (e.g. copyrighted author signed genre titles).

Out 30, 2022, 10:22 am

>147 punkzip: "To me, this huge discrepancy between the lettered and standard sales suggests that the sales are to a great extent, probably quite a bit more than other recent releases, driven by rights (access to future publications). This may be because there is not a lot of intrinsic demand for a fine press version of Peter Pan.

I don't disagree with this, but keep in mind that for lettered version, in particular, there is also a significant inherent draw to certain collectors for the "best" and "scarcest" state of a book, regardless of future rights.

Out 30, 2022, 1:13 pm

>148 whytewolf1: Agreed. From a design standpoint, the Lettered and Numbered are the more appealing of the 3 states, in my opinion.

Editado: Out 30, 2022, 1:25 pm

I think some people are falsely assuming that it’s one group of collectors deciding between the Standard, Numbered or Lettered. Yes, there are probably numbered collectors who occasionally splurge for a nice lettered, and I’m sure some Peter Pan fans have the budget to decide between Standard or Numbered. But by and large, they’re different groups of collectors and makes sense that the smaller pools will fill up (I.e, sellout) first.

Out 30, 2022, 1:27 pm

>150 NathanOv: Bingo. I personally prefer the look of the Standard state and am not particularly interested enough in the title to splash out for a higher state. The lowest tier is the right price for an illustrated, letterpress volume that I have at least a passing interest in. If it were a different title with a design I liked more at a higher state, that's what I would have gone for. But this isn't an investment to me, neither am I constrained by price, nor do I care about reserving a number or letter for future volumes. I just bought what I liked. If the population of buyers is heterogeneous (some buying because of tier or reservation, others like me for whom this isn't a factor, etc), then it makes sense that higher tiers with fewer copies would deplete first.

The sales figures would be more telling if there were 500 of each tier. Then you would see which edition sold strictly on its merits as opposed to rarity and so forth.

Editado: Out 31, 2022, 10:10 am

>146 astropi: "that does beg the question how many book flippers are there?"

After 24 hours there were 115 numbered sold. This morning the number is 108. So at least 7 copies were cancelled. I don't know whether these cancellations were ALL flippers (people who were planning to flip and then figured out that there was no market after there was no fast sellout) or some were people who just got caught up in the excitement of the first release from a new press, and then reconsidered after it didn't seem like such a hot property from the initial sales. But interestingly, about 6% cancelled, which seems in line with prior estimates of the amount of flipping going on in general based on eBay listings (it happens and is visible, but is only in the 5% range).

Nov 1, 2022, 11:06 am

Looks like the ability to check remaining inventory with the "Folio trick" has been disabled ;)

Nov 1, 2022, 11:33 am

I don't blame them for disabling it. I can't imagine anything more annoying than people spending their time clicking numbers to be nosy for next to no reason rather than celebrating a production, or just not worrying about how folks are spending their money.

Jan 26, 3:13 pm

New post from the press, with info about Peter Pan, hints about the next title, and more on the forthcoming line of weird fiction.

Editado: Jan 26, 3:22 pm

>155 Shadekeep: I found this disappointing. I don’t know what type of titles they will publish, and instead of informing the public of this, they keep on dropping hints without any firm answers. 3 months ago they named artists they planned to work with, this is all a bit pointless if people don’t know what genre (away from the Weird titles) they will focus on

Editado: Jan 26, 8:10 pm

>155 Shadekeep: That comment about publishing one of the "most prolific living weird fiction writers" is intriguing. Probably a pipe dream for me to hope for Jeff VanderMeer though, since I think he and Joshi are in a bit of a feud. I would not be surprised if the author from the "other side of the Atlantic" that they're in talks with is either China Mieville or Ramsey Campbell, though.

Jan 26, 3:52 pm

The Marc Castelli-illustrated book being next on the press is welcome news. I really enjoy his paintings.

Editado: Jan 26, 7:40 pm

>157 NathanOv: I'm not sure who the American is either, but I think Ramsey Campbell is a pretty solid candidate for the across-the-pond selection. Might also be Brian Lumley.

Other authors I'd include who don't usually get a look in are Richard Matheson, Fredric Brown, and Gerald Kersh. And while he may not be a perfect fit, I'd still love to see at least one series of weird authors include a volume of Edogawa Rampo.

Jan 26, 8:53 pm

>158 ChampagneSVP:

A book illustrated by Marc Castelli practically sells itself. His work in 'Heart of Darkness' for the Chester River Press (now, the Deep Wood Press) was exceptional.

Jan 26, 9:16 pm

>156 DMulvee: I don't profess to channel grifgon or his knowledge but I recall one of his communications about his big three books referencing some kind of royalties or payments kicking in once a title is publicly announced so he made veiled references/hints until ready for that to happen. I wonder if something like that could be at play here.

Jan 26, 10:23 pm

>159 Shadekeep: is Ramsey Campbell considered weird fiction? I haven't read a lot of his work but every time I do I think I should read more of it.

Jan 27, 2:58 am

>161 LBShoreBook: That’s fair, but surely the genre could be announced? Is it another classic children’s literature? If it were to be (for example) ‘The Old Man and the Sea’, then a 20th century classic could be announced. I just don’t know what the press stands for, whilst I think they have explained the vision behind the ‘Weird’ imprint well

Jan 27, 11:15 am

>162 SDB2012: Yes, he's consider part of the extended Lovecraft circle by many, so comfortably falls into the weird classification. Like a lot of weird authors I tend to prefer the shorter works and novellas over the novels, but part of that is a personal predilection for short works on the whole.

Editado: Jan 27, 11:28 am

Esta mensagem foi marcada como abusiva por vários utilizadores e por isso não é mostrada (mostre)
>156 DMulvee: Whoa, you’re a grumpy one aren’t ya!

Jan 27, 1:10 pm

>163 DMulvee: I'd assume it's The Old Man and the Sea, with Marc Castelli's specialty and the ambitious timeline for the book, which would only be feasible for a shorter work.

Jan 27, 3:44 pm

>164 Shadekeep: I had no idea. My knowledge of such things is limited but growing. I read the Centipede Pres version of The Parasite and thoroughly enjoyed it. I found it to be a smart book that's stood the test of time.

Mar 15, 2:49 pm

The March newsletter is up:

Peter Pan is nearing the goal and the next title is teased.

There is a good amount of info about the forthcoming Weird line (or Weird. as it is written there). I'm strongly divided on the first offering. I'm a huge William Hope Hodgson fan, but unenthusiastic about the work of the frankly overused Dave McKean. I also think he's a terrible fit stylistically for this author. Ah well, at least the rest of the book previewed looks good.

The recently discussed Vladimir Zimakov will be illustrating the following two-volume set, which is a marked improvement. I think he's a great fit for the genre.

In further good news, Sveta Dorosheva will be producing emblems for each book in the series. The one previewed is superb.

Mar 15, 3:29 pm

Here is the hint for the next book. Any ideas? 150 years ago would be 1872-3.

"The story you are about to read is one of the most globally influential tales ever told. This is to be ascribed not only to the genius of its author – which was great indeed – but to the commercial context into which the text was born, one hundred and fifty years ago, in late nineteenth-century Britain and America.

Much has changed since then, but more has not. Still this book inspires us to thrill, to lose ourselves, to carry with us indelible moments of incident and character long after we close its pages. To understand how, and more crucially why this tale continues to flourish across time and region, we must travel back to the late 1800s and examine its place as part of an extended literary experiment upon the battleground of contemporary sensibilities in fiction."

Mar 15, 3:43 pm

>169 punkzip: My best guess is Tom Sawyer, or possibly Huck Finn.

Editado: Mar 15, 3:55 pm

>169 punkzip: Around the World in Eighty Days was published in that timeframe. As a startup building a subscriber base I would expect one of the mainstream works from that era to tick the boxes for next work.

Mar 15, 3:59 pm

>170 NathanOv: >171 LBShoreBook: Other candidates include Middlemarch, Carmilla, and Anna Karenina. But I think you both have better selections.

Editado: Mar 15, 4:04 pm

Treasure island? 20k leagues under the sea?
My guesses

Mar 15, 4:09 pm

Isn’t this a book in English according to the hint? That would rule out Verne and Tolstoy.

Mar 15, 4:13 pm

>174 punkzip: could commercial context to which it was born refer to censoring of original material or translation changes?

Mar 15, 4:18 pm

>174 punkzip: fair point on Verne - I was thinking because protagonist is from London that might have been the English hint. In any event, we'll see soon enough. I would be shocked if a new press tackles an 800-900 page book like Middlemarch or AK but I've been shocked before. :)

Mar 15, 4:36 pm

>176 LBShoreBook: I wondered if it was a reference to Tom Sawyer’s initial commercial failure, or perhaps the context of it being one of the first books composed on a typewriter. Could be hinting at many different things though!

Mar 15, 4:44 pm

If we're meant to take 150 years literally, Around the World in 80 Days seems like a solid guess.

Mar 15, 4:54 pm

Hint: 150 years + or - ten years.

Mar 15, 4:55 pm

>168 Shadekeep: "In further good news, Sveta Dorosheva will be producing emblems for each book in the series. The one previewed is superb."

I could not agree more. That illustration is perfect for weird fiction. I hope it is printed from the block/plate.

Mar 15, 5:01 pm

Hugo’s Toilers of the Sea?

Mar 15, 6:09 pm

Alice in wonderland is my guess.

Mar 15, 8:13 pm

>182 EdmundRodriguez: I was wondering about Alice as well, from the description. 1865 does fall within the margin of error. I also thought it might have been The Wizard Of Oz, but that one is too late.

Editado: Mar 16, 4:42 am

I'm following the press with interest after this newsletter. They're taking on some interesting projects and I'll very likely be ordering something down the line. I didn't order Peter Pan as I don't rate the story itself, but the design and attention to detail of the editions themselves looks to be impressive. However, as I've mentioned wrt Curious King, I'm not too keen on this trend for holding preorders before at least the illustration work is complete. I understand that these new presses are enthusiastic and trying to quickly make a name for themselves, but it just seems to be a recipe for endless delays - as we've already seen with Curious King. In the case of Peter Pan, the pre order was around 6 months ago, and the illustrations and typesetting aren't complete even now. So the book is presumably still a year away at least, probably more. How does this impact future releases and are we to expect similar waits for them?

>170 NathanOv: My guess is also Huckleberry Finn. The other clue we have is that Mark Castelli is the illustrator and a quick search reveals that he's primarily an artist of river and marine scenes. So it fits.

Mar 16, 9:13 am

>184 Levin40: It says they're announcing it, doesn't say anything about accepting pre-orders.

Unfortunately with some presses these two things are conflated. I do agree about presses seemingly needing to raise capital from customers to execute their projects, leading to very long periods between purchasing and delivery.

NRP has admirably recognized this and promised to have all three of their new books shipped by the end of September, two of which they haven't even started accepting pre-orders for.

Abr 25, 10:30 pm

Just found out that if you order Peter Pan by tomorrow (26th), you will receive a beautiful broadside as a thank you from Conversation Tree Press

Maio 4, 2:31 pm

Nice little teaser they just posted on Instagram.

Maio 4, 3:59 pm

>187 Shadekeep: Part of their Weird fiction series, you think?

Maio 5, 8:24 am

>188 ultrarightist: Seems suitable, yes. Looks like it might be a Vess illustration.

Maio 5, 8:24 am

Este utilizador foi removido como sendo spam.

Editado: Maio 8, 12:25 pm

This is what the illustration was teasing: Faun by Joe Hill (Signed Limited Edition)

Maio 8, 12:25 pm

>187 Shadekeep: Looks like it's "Faun" by Joe Hill and not a part of Weird. That was unexpected. I'm not a Hill fan so I'll save my pennies for the premiere Weird volume but it sounds like a nice edition for horror fans.

Maio 8, 12:31 pm

>192 NoBueno: Not a fan either (prefer Joe Lansdale for this kind of horror), though I did enjoy the Black Phone movie. I do like the illustration work of Francois Vaillancourt however, and it's nice this is being printed by Nomad Letterpress, so a pretty tempting volume on those counts alone.

Maio 8, 1:25 pm

>193 Shadekeep: While I've also never cared much for Joe Hill, I have to say the synopsis and subject matter have me highly intrigued - I may have to go for the standard.

Side note, the synopsis also reminded me how badly I want a press to take on Olga Tokarczuk's Drive Your Plow Over The Bones of The Dead. It tackles the same themes mentioned in that announcement with a Nordic fairytale feel to it despite being realistic fiction, and comes from a truly masterful story teller.

Maio 8, 1:32 pm

>194 NathanOv: I would absolutely buy that Tokarczuk novel in fine press format. All the Birds, Singing by Evie Wyld was very nearly another novel in that same class, but didn't gel for me as much. I think it might have been the writing style more than the story itself, however, and is worth checking out for fans of this kind of story.

Ago 9, 2:18 pm

Has anyone heard anything from or about this press recently? The last update on the press's website is dated May 25.

Editado: Ago 9, 2:38 pm

>196 ultrarightist: Just did a sweep of my emails and didn't find anything more current than that from them. Might wanna poke 'em with a stick.

Ago 9, 2:46 pm

>196 ultrarightist: I'm not on Facebook myself, but there are some updates there that are open to everyone. The last update was 28 July:

Ago 9, 3:07 pm

>198 Dr.Fiddy: Ugh, I hate it when people don't update their own site and rely instead on you to check social media.

Ago 9, 4:28 pm

Considered me poked and thank you for your interest!

The aim is to have a production update (or gyaff as I called them) with substantial content via newsletter/blog post once every two to three months. The next one will be going out on August 16th.

I prefer not make very small blog posts (or worse - send too many emails) for every little update, as that's what Facebook and Instagram are for - quick videos and posts. Every medium has its strengths and audience, and the email/blog post production update will cover and expand on what gets posted to social media, so no one misses anything.

Ago 9, 4:37 pm

>200 CTPress-Tony: sounds good.
I'm so excited for Peter Pan and Faun and especially for the upcoming Weird fiction ❤️❤️‍🔥😊

Ago 10, 12:55 am

>198 Dr.Fiddy: Thanks

>200 CTPress-Tony: Thank you for the update. Looking forward to your next gyaff.

>201 Ragnaroek: Same

Ago 10, 10:24 am

>200 CTPress-Tony: Your policy makes sense. It just can get kind of quiet for folks who aren't on the social media platforms.

Ago 10, 12:02 pm

Just make an Fake-Instagramm account and you dont miss out on anything anymore.

Ago 10, 2:06 pm

>204 Ragnaroek: Ironically I do follow Conversation Tree on there (I got the account initially to follow my niece, who is a singer). Had forgotten they posted something there as well. I'm not great shakes at tracking folks on there unless they are prolific posters. Still, my bad.

Ago 10, 3:12 pm

I'm with Shadekeep I'm not a fan of social media and rarely use Facebook, Twitter, whatever... I just find it easier receiving an email from a publisher letting me know how things are progressing! I don't think we're alone, at least I keep reading about how there is a large decrease in social media usage across the globe.

Ago 10, 3:56 pm

If anyone does want to get all possible updates from publishers but dislikes social media, they may consider making Facebook & Instagram accounts, following only publisher accounts, and not friending people. This way, you don't have to actually socialize, but can check each account once a day and receive all the book updates you're interested in (similar to checking your inbox).

Ago 10, 4:11 pm

>207 BooksFriendsNotFood: I've never had Facebook or Instagram and never will.

I get it if publishers are trying not to email too much but I would prefer if a publisher had the contents of their social media updates archived on their sites so we could check in without having to contribute to Zuck's empire. If they can post on social media they can post on their sites too.

Editado: Ago 10, 4:42 pm

>208 LeBacon: That's a personal choice and I can respect that. My suggestion was meant for people who really do want those latest updates without having the typical "social media" experience* since I've noticed that many publishers post more on Facebook and Instagram than through their websites or through email. Arete Editions is the only publisher I'm aware of that goes to the extra effort of posting their updates on social media as well as on their blog.

*This being said, I honestly consider websites like Goodreads and LibraryThing to be another form of social media — many people consider them both as "Facebook for books".

EDIT: It's also worth noting that you can just bookmark the publisher's Instagram or Facebook pages (since they're usually public) and check those links however often you'd like if you don't want to make an account but don't mind giving them page views. An account would just allow you to access updates from desired publishers from a single feed rather than through multiple bookmarked links.

Ago 10, 4:56 pm

>208 LeBacon: Agreed. And in fact, I really wonder what percentage of fine press patrons are into Facebook, Instagram, etc? Got me wondering -- I created a short and quite unprofessional poll, but hey, let's see what people have to say :)


Here is what the poll looks like

Ago 10, 5:16 pm

>208 LeBacon: They do have their social media feeds archived on websites - the websites are Facebook and Instagram.

Not sure what the difference is checking in to a publisher’s website versus checking into their publicly-available-without-logging-in social media feeds.

Putting your social media feeds on a website somewhere is putting content that was meant for one particular medium on a different medium. Sometimes it works, mostly it doesn’t.

Ago 10, 5:17 pm

>210 astropi: I have Facebook and created an Instagram account to see updates about books. If all publishers updated their websites I would happily delete social media, however I am currently forced to use it if I wish to remain informed. On your poll I would have to tick the top option, but I would strongly prefer if this wasn’t the case

Ago 10, 6:07 pm

>209 BooksFriendsNotFood: Similar as in they are both social forums but that ends there. One is about books and discussion about books. The other is a multibillion dollar industry that only cares about profit selling user information and responsible for false information leading to hate, social divisiveness, autocratic regimes and mass murder. But other than that they have some similarities.

Editado: Ago 10, 7:56 pm

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>208 LeBacon: You sound like a person who is difficult to make happy. You’re presented with multiple, viable options but still complain.

I just tried an anonymous window, googled Conversation Tree Press Facebook and you can see all the posts without an account as they're public.

Ago 10, 7:58 pm

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>210 astropi: You truly are the master of veering threads off topic. Will this become another Suntup thread too?

Ago 10, 8:15 pm

>214 What_What: I don't want to use Facebook. It's not that complicated.

Ago 10, 10:25 pm

>213 Joshbooks1: Exactly. This is a forum, a form of digital media that dates back to the time of the BBS. It prioritises back-and-forth discussion. Social media is a different animal, it prioritises a producer-consumer dynamic.

Coming back to the original point, I wouldn't want fine press to rely on LT to disseminate their updates either. I would like them to be on their website, first and foremost. They don't need to be on the front page per se, if the press prefers that to be a more professional looking gallery of works. But somewhere on the site it's nice to have a news feed. I understand why some don't do it, but that's my preference all the same.

Ago 10, 10:57 pm

Editado: Ago 11, 12:34 am

>209 BooksFriendsNotFood:
This being said, I honestly consider websites like Goodreads and LibraryThing to be another form of social media — many people consider them both as "Facebook for books".

For me, a major distinction between social media and other digital media is that, for the most part, social media companies’ primary raison d’etre is to capture, manipulate and monetize their user’s interaction data, on behalf of their true customers. In this regard, I wouldn’t put Goodreads and LibraryThing together in the same basket.

Editado: Ago 11, 1:04 am

Google / Oxford Languages defines social media as “websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking" (and social networking is, in turn, defined as "the use of dedicated websites and applications to interact with other users, or to find people with similar interests to oneself").

Additionally, if you look up "are forums social media", the popular answer seems to be yes.

So I would stand by LT and GR being social media. But this is probably off-topic anyways.

The latest discussions in this topic seem to be regarding the following:
A. Is social media good or bad?
B. What qualifies as social media? (I inadvertently started this one lol and this has seemingly led to 'Are some forms of social media "better" than others?'.)
C. Should (fine press) publishers prioritize disseminating information through their websites and through email rather than through social media?

While these are all interesting in their own ways, I think C is relevant and what people are trying to talk about - i.e. a discussion of a potential or ideal future state of publisher communication - whereas my comment was not related to this and was instead a suggestion of how to not miss out on publisher updates given the current state (and this suggestion is clearly irrelevant to people who dislike specific social media platforms as opposed to certain behavioral aspects of participating in social media).

Ago 11, 5:18 am

>208 LeBacon: That's why we at Arete put all our social media on a blog that you can get through the website.

Ago 11, 6:28 am

>221 marceloanciano: I appreciate that. I have been to your site a few times but had not noticed the link to the blog. I see it now at the bottom of the page. Maybe consider a link to the blog in your main menu? I always check the main menu but sometimes lack the observation skills to notice a less prominent link elsewhere.

Ago 11, 6:54 am

>222 LeBacon: Yeah, good idea

Ago 11, 10:56 am

>221 marceloanciano: Much appreciated. That's the way to do it, imo. Arete and Lyra are class acts.

Editado: Ago 11, 3:04 pm

Thus far in our unscientific but interesting poll, the results seem split between those who use social media every day and those who use it far less --

If you have not yet voted, please do

Ago 16, 9:19 am

Today we should get some news . Iam excited the whole day 🤣
And Suntup news aswell 😄

Ago 16, 11:19 am

Still no Weird. but it looks like Faun is shaping up nicely.

Seems odd to go from classic children's book Peter Pan to contemporary horror book Faun but maybe some of the 150 rights holders of the deluxe edition will want both.

Ago 16, 11:21 am

Great update from Tony. Preorders for Faun opens on 30th August. Peter Pan expected to ship in November and the next book's preorders will be in November too. Awaiting the official announcement on what the Marc Castelli book will be. Pen and ink drawings, all letterpress printed! Flowers for Algernon will have both pen and ink drawings and oil paintings. Exciting Gyaff :)

Ago 16, 11:29 am

>227 LeBacon: Have you read Faun? I wouldn’t call it a horror short story. Maybe fantasy slash something else.

Ago 16, 11:34 am

>227 LeBacon: "Seems odd to go from classic children's book Peter Pan to contemporary horror book Faun but maybe some of the 150 rights holders of the deluxe edition will want both."

I certainly do 😊

Ago 16, 11:46 am

>229 What_What: No, haven't read it - was assuming horror because of Joe Hill and the book's description.

Editado: Ago 16, 12:04 pm

>227 LeBacon: the original Peter Pan is not at all an children book... its indeed very dark and brutal.
There is an reason the kids in neverland never get old... 💀

Faun is an very good choice for an Book aswell.

Ago 16, 12:09 pm

>232 Ragnaroek: Pinocchio is another where the original is much more complex and grim than its dulcified derivatives.

Ago 16, 1:08 pm

Rather a strange update on the Faun pre-order I would say. Full of rather dry details but not really making any attempt to actually sell the book. I've not read Faun. Why is is worth my time, and - more to the point - why is it worth buying in a fine press edition? How many illustrations are there? What are the prices? I gather it's a short story, so I'm hopeful it'll be heavily illustrated in order to flesh it out. If it's anything like the treatment given by Arete and Gary Gianni to A Case of Death and Honey then I might well be interested. Otherwise probably not.

Ago 16, 1:15 pm

>233 Shadekeep:
Oh really? I don't know it tbh . Shame on me 😳

Editado: Ago 16, 1:26 pm

>234 Levin40:
True. Some more Infos would have tasted, but Suntup never gives us Infos either before we can buy , right ?

No PayPal anymore is an interesting news aswell 🤔

Ago 16, 1:53 pm

>236 Ragnaroek: True, but in Suntup's case the actual title of the book is kept a secret until it's available to purchase, officially at least. That's how he builds the hype. In the case of Faun, the title was announced a while ago, as well as the artist and an illustration teaser. That's why I thought it was a bit odd to fill the update with details on rights and the printing status but not actually provide us with what we really want to know. There wouldn't be any harm in doing that at this stage and it would actually help in hyping the title - particularly so as I'm guessing it's a story few of us have actually read!

Ago 16, 2:05 pm

>237 Levin40:
100% true 👍
Maybe Tony feeds us some more Infos in the couple of days.
I'm not an CTP follower since the first announcement last year, so I'm not sure how Tony is handling this in generally.

Editado: Ago 16, 10:46 pm

Faun, an GrimDark fairy tale by Joe Hill:

Hunting time in Narnia, be aware Aslan 😅

The story begins during an African safari where a big-game hunting party assembles in hopes of bagging a lion. We are introduced to Mr. Fallows — an injured war veteran — and the very wealthy Mr. Stockton, Stockton’s son Peter, and Peter’s scholarship friend Christian. Billionaire-Stockton baits Fallows with information regarding a little door through which a man named Charn will guide a hunting party for “the hunt of a lifetime” all for the low, low price of $250,000. This hunt is invite only and ONLY occurs twice annually. Very exclusive. All trophies for the hunt must remain on Charn’s property. No other hunts will ever be able to compare.

It's an very short story sadly.
The pricing for CTP shouldn't be over 500$ this time, but who knows . The story us indeed an very good one 👌🙂

Ago 28, 11:08 am

Full details and pricing of the editions of Faun are up on the website now:

Gotta say, I dig that marbled paper on the Deluxe edition cover.

Ago 28, 11:36 am

Interesting. For some reason I had it in my head that they would continue that more classic look (as with the Peter Pan editions) but this is very different from that. More modern, I guess. Now I'm really wondering how they will do Weird. as it could be like this or like Peter Pan or something completely different from either.

Ago 28, 11:52 am

>240 Shadekeep: The standard and deluxe both look great to me, and the paper upgrade at a relatively low cost increase makes the Deluxe extra tempting.

Ago 28, 12:42 pm

>241 LeBacon: The three editions called to mind the usual three tiers of a Suntup release, especially with the inset cover on the Lettered. Not meant as a slam, in case one is not a fan of Suntup's work.

>242 NathanOv: Agreed, if I were going for one I'd plump for the Deluxe edition. The upgrades are easily worthwhile.

Editado: Ago 28, 5:11 pm

The standard looks the most beautiful in my opinion, but I will go for the numbered to keep rights. Maybe I take one standard too. .. ( if it doesn't sell out quickly)
Right now the standard editions are far superior to Suntups Artist/Classics edition ( a little more expensive though ).
Extremely high value you get here 👌❤️‍🔥

Iam very excited for the upcoming titles , especially the WEIRD fiction.

Editado: Ago 28, 6:41 pm

Deleted because I shouldn't have posted it in the first place ;)

Editado: Ago 28, 6:35 pm

>245 Objectr:
I didnt hold an CTP Book in my hands so far, so I cannot judge alot, but the fact that the books are bound by Ludlow Bookbinders speaks for itself.
Not sure Tony will always use them, but when I read Ludlow it's an instant buy without hesitation and worrieing.

I did above, but I dont like to compare CPT with Suntup.
Right now Tony did an awesome job.
The Website is top notch, the paper, bindings, illustrators are fantastic aswell.
It seems like an 3 month book cycle. I think that's really healthy.

We will see what Tony will do in the future and
iam glad to be part of this and exciting for the future projects.

Ago 28, 7:36 pm

>246 Ragnaroek: Just for clarification, my comparison of these editions to Suntup releases wasn't meant to be an exact parallel in terms of quality, binding, etc. Rather the motifs and distinguishing traits of each three editions reminded me of how Suntup usually differentiates their three editions of a title.

Ago 28, 8:42 pm

>247 Shadekeep: Several new presses are following the Suntup mould. It has clearly worked out for Suntup, so why not others?

Ago 28, 9:03 pm

>248 edkennedy: It does seem like a pretty logical model to follow, too. It tries to offer something for each taste.

Ago 28, 10:29 pm

It’s market segmentation at its best.

Ago 29, 2:16 am

>247 Shadekeep: I have totally understood that 👍

Ago 29, 2:18 am

Faust looks like a great effort from the press. The production values are good. The Roman numerals have all the possible bling :D

Ago 30, 11:12 am

>240 Shadekeep: "Gotta say, I dig that marbled paper on the Deluxe edition cover."

Me too; so just ordered one 😊

Ago 30, 11:23 am

Ordered my copy too 😊
Sad that you don't see an counter for the available Standard Editions. Atleast for the next 2 days. I love to see if I need to hurry 🤣 Just a "me" problem I guess.

Ago 30, 11:29 am

>254 Ragnaroek: With 500 available, I doubt there will be a need to rush.

I also ordered the deluxe. Very excited about this press!

Ago 30, 11:35 am

So far I am liking how they are presenting their books on the website with lots of clear photos from a variety of angles. You have a good idea of exactly what you are getting.

I'm not a Hill fan so I'm passing on this one but the standard looks quite nice and the price is reasonable so it gives me hope for future releases.

Ago 30, 12:12 pm

>255 SDB2012:
I love this press too so far 😊
Yeah I think you're right.

Editado: Ago 30, 12:16 pm

>256 LeBacon:
I hope the next publication will be Flowers for Algernon. Iam hyped for that title. Overall iam really excited for all the WEIRD titles. 🙂

The house on the borderland will be the first title in this series..

Ago 30, 8:16 pm

In terms of Flowers for Algernon, the best edition I have ever seen is the Easton Press DLE. While not letterpress and thus not a true "fine press" edition, it is beautifully bound, has original commissioned color illustrations, and signed by Daniel Keyes!

Ago 30, 10:18 pm

>259 astropi:
I bet this edition costs quiet an fortune now. Isn't Keyes dead since 2014 ?

Ago 31, 1:33 pm

>260 Ragnaroek: He sadly passed away in 2014. Good news, the copies on the second-hand market are very affordable. Going rate is somewhere in the $400-500 range. It really is a beautiful production. Here is a picture of the slipcase and book. The illustrations are beautiful too, I believe EP commissioned 8 full-color illustrations for this edition.

Ago 31, 6:10 pm

>259 astropi: Totally agree. I ordered a “new in shrink wrap” from a small bookstore for $350 (ouch!; although I don’t recall the original price) after the attempt by Consensus Press was unsuccessful. It is beautiful. I have deluxe rights for Conversation Tree Press; I hope their Flowers for Algernon meets their current design efforts.

Editado: Ago 31, 6:54 pm

>262 EdwinDrood:
I'm curious if every book will be done by Ludlow. Would be amazing and I safe alot of shipping costs + time.

Very exquisite materials they use so far. For all available editions.

I thought they would ship with DHL too, but the Faun books ships with APC which I have never heard of. Iam a little worried tbh.

Out 24, 11:14 am

The press shared some interesting updates in today's gyaff:

Most notable, I think, is that the November pre-order will be for Flowers for Algernon, with the Marc Castelli book opening for orders sometime around February, and a new trilogy of books to be announced early next year.

Out 24, 11:24 am

How wonderful 😍

Out 24, 11:46 am

No updates on Weird, though. Boo!

Not even a little hint on the trilogy, but I hope it's something very different from what their competitors are doing (as in, I hope it's not Tolkien).

Out 24, 12:02 pm

>266 LeBacon: what fine press is doing Tolkien?

Out 24, 12:09 pm

Out 24, 12:10 pm

Recently there was that expensive Folio LE of Lord of the Rings for one. I'm obviously not a Tolkien fan but have seen many, many versions of his books. People who like him have a great wealth of options.

Out 24, 12:17 pm

>269 LeBacon: Hm - Tolkien is quite limited in fine press due to his estate’s protectiveness of the book rights. It’s just a constant stream of HM, HC and Folio reissues and updates that you’re seeing.

I doubt this is Tolkien and would prefer something else, though.

Out 24, 12:31 pm

>270 NathanOv: Yeah, in general I would like more fine press options that aren't fantasy oriented as is the trend now. Or at least one that's less obvious.

Even when it's a genre I like there is too much overlap of the same titles (like please no more Dracula or Frankenstein).

Out 24, 12:37 pm

What is the "The Marc Castelli Book" .
Heart of Darkness ? 😅

Out 24, 12:40 pm

>272 Ragnaroek: From previous hints, it’s a title from the 1860s - 1880s, and one would assume there’s a nautical theme given the choice of illustrator.

Editado: Out 24, 12:43 pm

>273 NathanOv:
He illustrated Heart of Darkness too. 😅
I would love to see that book.

Out 24, 12:50 pm

>274 Ragnaroek: I’ve been in the hunt for a copy of that one for several years now, but this one has a brand new suite of line drawings so is presumably a new text for the illustrator.

Out 24, 3:03 pm

>273 NathanOv: Hmm, that puts The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket (1838) at too early, and Two Years Before the Mast (1911) as too late. Any other clues?

Out 24, 3:09 pm

>276 Shadekeep: Well, they published this excerpt from the introduction which is where the bulk of the information comes from:

"The story you are about to read is one of the most globally influential tales ever told. This is to be ascribed not only to the genius of its author – which was great indeed – but to the commercial context into which the text was born, one hundred and fifty years ago, in late nineteenth-century Britain and America.

Much has changed since then, but more has not. Still this book inspires us to thrill, to lose ourselves, to carry with us indelible moments of incident and character long after we close its pages. To understand how, and more crucially why this tale continues to flourish across time and region, we must travel back to the late 1800s and examine its place as part of an extended literary experiment upon the battleground of contemporary sensibilities in fiction."

I don't know how exact the 150 years timeline actually is, beyond someone with knowledge of the title clarifying to "give or take ten years."

Out 24, 7:15 pm

>277 NathanOv: Ah, thanks. With plaudits like that, I doubt it's either of the titles I suggested, and seems to describe a foundational text of the canon. The description is general enough that, like a horoscope, it can be seen to be true retroactively once one knows the answer.

Out 24, 7:44 pm

>278 Shadekeep:

Two strikes. One more and you're out!! 😀

Editado: Out 24, 7:59 pm

>278 Shadekeep: Twain and Dickens are the only two English-language novelists active during that period who come to mind for runaway overseas commercial success, but I personally wouldn’t describe any of their individual stories (and I mean plots) as quite as influential or enduring as the press has.

Out 24, 8:06 pm

>280 NathanOv:

And two strikes for you as well!! 😃😀

Editado: Out 24, 8:12 pm

>281 dlphcoracl: Well, beyond them all I can think of is Alcott and Little Women but I’m not sure that’s a perfect fit either.

Like >278 Shadekeep: said, I’m sure it will feel obvious in retrospect!

Out 24, 9:09 pm

Given the elimination of the suggestions above, the only novel I can think of with such a magnitude of impact in the Anglo-American world is Moby Dick, but that is solidly mid-19th century rather than late-19th century. Also, while Robert Louis Stevenson was influential, I'm not sure any of his works meets the impact magnitude criterion.

Out 24, 10:42 pm

>280 NathanOv: Melville was extremely popular in the UK and even did a book tour there before publishing Moby Dick, which, ironically, was the beginning of his downfall as a popular novelist in which he eventually stopped writing novels altogether and died in poverty. It was not regarded as a masterpiece until after his death.

Honestly the only two other authors I can think of are either Conrad or Melville. There are too many recent fine press editions of Heart of Darkness but it is so great i wouldn't mind. Lord Jim and Nostromo are equally magnificent. Never loved Typee or Ommo and neither hold a candle to Moby Dick but are fun reads.

Out 25, 2:50 am

>282 NathanOv: >283 ultrarightist: I am still hoping it is Captains Courageous, though I doubt it is. Would definitely love for a fine press edition of Little Women too! But doesn't seem to fit either. Jules Verne is my guess

Out 25, 4:27 am

If its Moby Dick iam out .
That book may be a classic, but is only good if you wanna go to sleep very fast.

Heart of Darkness would be an instant buy for me. Dont rob me of my dreams ;)

Editado: Out 25, 5:00 am

>285 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: Captains Courageous is a good guess, certainly wrt the time period and the choice of illustrator. But it doesn't really fit the grandiose 'one of the most globally influential tales ever told' or the 'part of an extended literary experiment'. To my mind - and as others have mentioned - only Moby Dick and Heart of Darkness could really fit those statements and justify a 'nautical' illustrator. Though Moby Dick seems a tad too early and as for Heart of Darkness it would be the second time Marc Castelli has been employed to illustrate a fine press version. Hmmm.

As for Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas could fit the illustrator but doesn't fit for a text born in 'late nineteenth-century Britain and America'.

Let's see. This could well be my first CTP title.

Out 25, 6:29 am

Btw, if the trilogy should be Lord of the Rings , hat would be absolutely fantastic, but I doubt it. ( there is no bletterpress printed Lotr out there I think ?)

Out 25, 8:15 am

>282 NathanOv:

The thought of Marc Castelli illustrating Little Women is a frightening one. 😱

Out 25, 9:11 am

If it's Melville then I am hoping for Bartleby the Scrivener.

I know it has been done as fine press years ago but that version is expensive and I wasn't a fan of a few of the design choices so a new version would be welcome. It is significantly shorter than much of what Conversation Tree is doing, though.

Out 25, 9:12 am

>289 dlphcoracl: what about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland?

Out 25, 9:51 am

>291 EdmundRodriguez:


1. This has been done multiple times by other modern private presses. Tony Geer has more imagination than that. No need for another Alice.

2. Marc Castelli illustrating Alice's Adventures in Wonderland?? 😳 I think not.

Out 25, 9:53 am

>292 dlphcoracl: I'm glad to hear it. Although must say I would have been curious to see Marc's take on it!

Out 25, 10:12 am

>288 Ragnaroek: Most editions of The Lord of the Rings in the first twenty years after it was published were printed letterpress.

Out 25, 10:40 am

Wondered briefly if it might be Rafael Sabatini, but as fine as Captain Blood and Scaramouche are, I don't think they fit the descriptor either. Both are bit too early as well.

Editado: Out 25, 11:10 am

>290 LeBacon: I would love to see Bartleby as well but the 1853 publication date seems to fall outside of the referenced timeframe (late 19th century). It does tie out with the commercial-context reference. Middlemarch ticks the right timeframe but that is awfully long for a private press publication.

Out 25, 11:35 am

Returning to my mention of Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island does have a nautical theme, and while certainly influential, lacks the magnitude of impact mentioned in the description.

The only other late-19th century novel with a magnitude of impact on the Anglo-American world as described that I can think of is Dracula, but that can hardly be said to have a nautical theme.

Out 25, 12:12 pm

>294 edkennedy:
Ahh true. I always forget how old this books are

Out 25, 12:17 pm

>287 Levin40: I was thinking of Around the World in 80 Days. Was wondering if the description "commercial context into which the text was born, one hundred and fifty years ago, in late nineteenth-century Britain and America" was not referring to the printing technique of the book (which someone predicted earlier i.e: Huck Finn) but rather the publication of the book at a time when global/transcontinental tourism and long railway routes were just starting. Hope we find out soon :) Or I will just continue playing guessing games and hoping it is a classic I love

Editado: Out 25, 2:20 pm

Can anyone think of a "monumental and highly regarded trilogy" this is NOT 'Lord of the Rings'?? The only thing that pops into my cranium is Hilary Mantel's trilogy:

1. Wolf Hall
2. Bring Up the Bodies
3. The Mirror & the Light

Out 25, 2:36 pm

Dark materials
Girl with dragon tattoo?

Out 25, 2:37 pm

The Foundation trilogy?

Out 25, 2:40 pm

Monumental and highly regarded trilogies that pop into my mind include the Kristin Lavransdatter trilogy by Nobel laureate Sigrid Undset and the Cairo trilogy by Nobel laureate Naguib Mahfouz. I'd be pleased to see either of them, which is not to say that I find it wildly likely they'd be chosen.

Out 25, 2:45 pm

How about Cormac McCarthy’s Border Trilogy?

Out 25, 2:52 pm

>304 Redshirt:

Ding! Ding! Ding!!!!!!!

I think we have a winner here. I had totally forgotten Cormac McCarthy's trilogy but it has never had a fine or private press edition and it certainly lends itself to a splendid set of illustrations.

Out 25, 2:56 pm

The Gormenghast Trilogy (Mervyn Peake)
The Sprawl Trilogy (William Gibson)
The Three-Body Problem Trilogy (Cixin Liu)
The Karla Trilogy (Le Carre)
The Merlin Trilogy (Mary Stewart)
The Deptford Trilogy (Robertson Davies)
The Space Trilogy (C S Lewis)
The Mars Trilogy (Kim Stanley Robinson)

Out 25, 2:59 pm

The Great Plains Trilogy (Cather)

Out 25, 3:21 pm

Maybe the Arthur Trilogy (Kevin Crossley-Holland)?

But I hope it's Cormac McCarthy.

Out 25, 4:07 pm

Would love it to be the Zimiamvia trilogy by E.R. Eddison. Almost certainly will not be Philip K. Dick's VALIS trilogy.

Out 25, 4:22 pm

>301 trentsteel: oooooooOoooooooO yeeeesssss. Please give us the Girl with the Dragon Tatoo. That series is splendid 😍

Out 25, 6:10 pm

Any updates on Peter Pan? I'm very much looking forward to it :)

Editado: Out 25, 7:22 pm

>311 astropi:
Should be shipped early to end of December if I'm correct.

Edit// So we will have 3 separate branches for rights I guess.
1. The "normal" publications
2. The upcoming "WEIRD" publications
3. The new trilogy publication(s)

Out 25, 7:40 pm

>303 ambyrglow: Two amazing books! Would be instant purchases for me as well.

Is the new publication part of a trilogy?

More in left field but other wonderful trilogies of the 20th century:
Achebe: African Trilogy
Faulkner: Snopes Trilogy
Sarte: The Roads to Freedom
Kertész: Holocaust Trilogy (one of the most underrated and beautiful series of books I have ever read).
Dos Passos: USA Trilogy

Out 25, 8:21 pm

>314 Joshbooks1: the new publication is not part of an trilogy. Its just 1 book

Out 25, 8:35 pm

Out 26, 9:02 am

>288 Ragnaroek: >294 edkennedy: it is true that most earlier editions of LoTR would have been printed letterpress in a technical sense, but few trade editions (even those printed with a relief method) will use nice materials (especially the paper is often poor quality).

Your best bet in this regard, if you care about it being letterpress, is the white leather spine Folio Society early edition (labyrinth motif). The leather is not the highest quality, but if the black and white illustrations work for you the printing is decent and the paper is going to be much better than just about any other pre-80s edition of Tolkien you will be able to find.

Out 26, 10:18 pm

>314 Joshbooks1: >315 Ragnaroek: That would make Things Fall Apart a good candidate, then. Certainly an important work and modern classic.

Out 27, 10:40 am

Another guess for the late-19th c. British/American context: Henry James, Turn of the Screw (or maybe Portrait of a Lady). It is fun to guess!

Out 27, 11:29 am

>319 DenimDan:

Marc Castelli agreeing to illustrate The Turn of the Screw?? I think not. Try again. 😄

Out 28, 9:39 am

>320 dlphcoracl: Am I right? 😬 Or close?

Out 28, 11:48 am

>321 Praveenna_Nagaratnam:

Take your cue from Edgar Allan Poe's classic short story 'The Purloined Letter'. The answer is directly in front of you and the best clue is the most obvious one. Think carefully about the illustrator Marc Castelli and the works of literature well suited to his artistic interests (see link). 😉

Out 28, 12:01 pm

Treasure Island.

Out 30, 2:11 pm

>322 dlphcoracl: The Adventure of the Gloria Scott, a Sherlock Holmes story, 1893.

Nov 5, 10:55 pm

>323 edkennedy:
That would fit very well.
I would like that.

Editado: Nov 7, 3:12 am

Iam very late to the party. Most guesses I had, are already mentioned here, but nevertheless I wanna put my 2 cent in this discussion.

The Marc Castelli Book
1. "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad (1899)
(This is indeed an very globally influential tale till today, oft discussed. The last fine press copy of this title is from Chester River Press in 2008)
2. "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville (1851)
3. "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne (1870)
4."Treasure Island" by Robert Louis Stevenson (1883)

Personally I hope its my Nr. 4 or Nr.1, but iam not sure Marc Castelli would illustrate the same book twice.

The upcoming trilogy could be alot...
My guess would be:
1. Lord of the Rings (🙏 please)
2. The Hunger Games
3. This Dark Materials

Nov 7, 5:07 am

>326 Libri_mea_vita_sunt:

It is highly unlikely Marc Castelli would illustrate 'Heart of Darknes' again. Additionally, the Chester River Press edition has become a classic and a new private press (CVT) would be foolhardy to compete against it.

Editado: Nov 7, 6:48 am

>327 dlphcoracl:
Yeah, I don't think he would do the book twice, too - but I dont think it's foolhardy to do an own version/edition of an loved story.
We wouldn't see any new editions of books other publishers already did with youre statement.
It wouldn't be easy to improve the Chester River Press edition, but never to do an fine press edition of this work ever again, would be absolutely sad.
(How much people have the joy to have this River Edition? 100? 200? 300?)

Nov 7, 7:11 am

>328 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: They did about 190 copies across 3 editions, I think it's still available from co-producer Deep Wood Press

Nov 7, 7:18 am

>329 marceloanciano:
It's sold out unfortunately.
The site isn't active anymore.

Nov 7, 7:24 am

>330 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Oh yeah, it has for sale but when you pay, there is a problem, so, my bad, they have gone. Wonder why that has not changed. I was surprised to see it still having a check out as I tried to get a copy years ago.

Nov 7, 7:52 am

I can’t recall if anyone has already suggested it but Billy Budd seems to fit all of the elements for the Marc Castelli book.

Nov 7, 7:56 am

>328 Libri_mea_vita_sunt:

Doing another private press edition of Heart of Darkness makes absolutely no sense for Conversation Tree Press. This is a fledgling private press that is attempting to establish its own reputation (successfully, I might add!) and it is more likely to do this by breaking new ground rather than challenging a flawless Chester River Press edition.

Nov 7, 11:01 am

>333 dlphcoracl:
So if CTP would do Lord of the Rings, the Press wouldn't gain reputation, because there is already an absolute stunning piece of work from FolioSociety? Do I understand you correctly?

I get youre point of view 50/50. Heart of Darkness would be stupid anyway, if you use the exact same Illustrater, but why shouldn't CTP try and do their own vision of the book one day ? 🤔

Editado: Nov 7, 12:10 pm

>334 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Are you familiar with the Chester River Heart of Darkness? Or for that matter with the printers, binders and other craftspeople bringing Conversation Tree Press's books to life?

I am not sure you would be making that comparison if so. Another Heart of Darkness here would be a case of a press on a similar, or perhaps slightly lower level trying to top the definitive fine press edition of a book and inexplicably choosing the same illustrator.

While I don't particularly care if a fine press every tackles The Lord of The Rings, that would be a fairly notable landmark with major upgrades over the beautiful but highly flawed Folio edition.

Nov 7, 12:32 pm

>335 NathanOv:
Now iam confused.
Iam well aware of CTP's craftspeople.
Ludlow Bookbinders, Hand an Eye Letterpress and Nomad Letterpress for printing. I own quite alot of books of them.

I dont know the River Press and people, though.
Was my statement so ill made ?
I cant and won't compare those two presses. That's impossible.
Art is an inspiration of many factors. One likes it, the other not.

Like I said before, it wouldn't be really wise to use the same illustrator for the same book, but what is so wrong in doing the book one day, not today, not next week, not for the next 10 releases, but one day.

Was this Heart of Darkness Edition so godly made, that every other Edition of this title will fall to Ash, when seeing the first light of life ?

Is there really an defintive edition of books ? Yes, I guess so myself - but it's still art and on 190 people that bought and love that edition comes 190 people that say, that they would prefer an differ style.

There are alot of people that own an Folio Society LoTR LE, which is one of the most beautiful editions of this book out there right now... until the next comes, maybe. Tastes are different.

Nov 7, 12:43 pm

>336 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I, like you, don’t own the Chester River Heart of Darkness, but if a substantial percentage of CTP patrons do have a copy (even if this is a minority) it probably isn’t a wise idea to have this as one of your first books. Instead making sure you have the best version of each title that you are producing seems a wiser way to get others to cherish and seek out your titles

Nov 7, 12:48 pm

>336 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I think we're saying the same thing here - a new edition should be a new "take" on the work that offers something different that can stand out on it's own.

Repeating your example, a press like Conversation Tree doing a Lord of The Rings edition would be a very different, elevated take on the book.

Them doing another Heart of Darkness would simply draw comparison, even if collectors unable to acquire the rarer edition were still happy to have this one.

Nov 7, 1:26 pm

>337 DMulvee:
>338 NathanOv:

Yes, I agree. Iam glad I made my point understandable.

I think CTP has a bright future ahead.
I 'virtually' hold 2 books from that press so far and iam excited to have them physically one day and look forward to the Flowers of Algernon release. Great book which never had an fine press treatment so far, if iam not mistaken.

Nov 8, 4:26 pm

>336 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Was this Heart of Darkness Edition so godly made, that every other Edition of this title will fall to Ash, when seeing the first light of life ?

Ha, that made me chuckle :)
There is no doubt that the Chester River HoD is a masterpiece. Easily, the finest edition of HoD every published. Does that mean that it would be "foolhardy" to go up against it? Yes, but who exactly is going up against it? There are no copies for sale as far as I can tell anywhere. I'm sure if one went on the market it would be thousands, and someone (with a large wallet) would probably snag it up immediately. Other editions, notably the LEC HoD are absolutely not to my taste. So, I personally think it would be a good idea to release a new beautiful illustrated letterpress edition of HoD.

Nov 8, 5:17 pm

>340 astropi:
I understand the trouble now 😁

Editado: Nov 9, 3:52 pm

Flowers for Algernon preorder info:

And about the illustrations:

Edit: based on these small bits of info, I want this quite badly. Hope the rest of the design matches the power of the illustrations. And that it would be possible to get a copy…

Nov 9, 4:34 pm

I don't quite understand the logic behind doing preorders for standard copies separate from the deluxe ones. Basically if you don't hold the rights for deluxe but want the book, you have a choice between ordering the standard or waiting for the deluxe and feeling lucky. If you opt for the latter, chances are high you miss out completely. If you buy the standard, then you're taking yourself out of the race for the one you'd actually want, or you're potentially buying two books... I don't understand why not do the pre-orders at the same time for both tiers.

Nov 9, 4:43 pm

>343 filox: Well, I think the easy answer is that they don't expect either to sell out immediately so it's a non-issue.

Nov 9, 4:48 pm

>344 NathanOv: If I had a book for every fine press publisher that didn't expect to sell out...

Nov 9, 5:01 pm

>345 filox: You'd have what, 2-3 books? "Instant" sellouts are uncommon but typically predictable.

Nov 9, 5:34 pm

>346 NathanOv: "Instant" in this case is 2 days. Yes, a lot of books have been selling out in 2 days lately.

Nov 9, 5:47 pm

>342 BorisG: This just looks amazing. Day one purchase here... :)

Nov 9, 5:51 pm

I'm not actually interested in the book, but that binding is making my body feel a little funny ...

Nov 9, 6:05 pm

i really dont have much interest in the book but I must say the preview of the binding looks great.

Nov 9, 6:17 pm

While Conversation Tree Press does have a history of not selling out any of their standard or deluxe editions yet, it is worth pointing out that the limitations have now been cut from 200 to 175 (Deluxe) and from 500 to 300 (Standard). So, selling out within a couple of days is perfectly plausible. The spine of (what I suppose is) the deluxe edition does look lovely. Unfortunately, I do not expect my finances to allow going beyond (the usual) standard, but I am going to mull things over once the details are in (and, of course, Faun should be shipping any day now, so...)

Editado: Nov 9, 6:50 pm

I dont know how well the other 2 books sold , but I wonder why the limitation is so "low" for this specific book. Its an multi million copy sold, high regarded classic book.
So is neither pan, nor faun. Pan is just very famous through the movies and theatre work, the original adult story most people don't know.

If people go all in , then my guess would be this title tbh.

175 is a really low limitation, but that makes the existing books even more rare 😁

If the picture is showcasing the Deluxe I want to have it.

Tony's work and web-page is incredibly good.
I hope the WEIRD cycle starts next year 🙂

Nov 10, 12:45 am

Any ideas how much could the deluxe version cost?

Nov 10, 1:54 am

The displayed spine looks wonderful.

However I don’t like that details will be released only two days before the sale, surely customers should be allowed time to think and to make (for them) the right decision. Selling the standard two days before the deluxe is very odd

Nov 10, 9:45 am

That is a very pleasing spine detail. Not interested enough in the book itself to go for it, but I like what I've seen of the crafting (the illustrations are appropriate too).

Like others here, not a fan of the reservation sequence nor the short preview window for the deluxe. Don't know what the thinking is behind those. Maybe they are aping Suntup and their release order?

Nov 14, 11:24 am

Anyone got an shipping notification for Faun already ?
I got an mail from UPS yesterday that something from Ludlow is coming, but it could be Coraline aswell.
Since half my books seems to come from Ludlow It's sometimes hard to
know what is on the way, when there is no mail from the publisher aswell 😅

Nov 14, 11:27 am

>356 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: That’s most likely Coraline. However, the press was pretty insistent that copies of Faun will go out this month.

Nov 14, 11:31 am

>356 Libri_mea_vita_sunt:
>357 NathanOv:

The e-mail notification from Ludlow is for Coraline. I received one as well and I purchased Coraline but did not purchase Faun.

Nov 14, 11:38 am

>357 NathanOv:
>358 dlphcoracl:

Thank you for the Information.

Faun should be mostly ready I assume. I saw pictures on Facebook with stacks of stacks of stacks of books .

Nov 15, 5:56 pm

Here's the shipping update the press just shared (it's on their site)

Peter Pan
All states of Peter Pan continue to be folded and gathered with the goal of having copies shipped in December.

Fulfillment of the Standard and Deluxe states of Faun is about to begin. As mentioned before, with Ludlow Bookbinders fulfilling European orders directly from their bindery and remaining copies sent to us in Canada in bulk, we’re able to offer competitive shipping rates to North American collectors for all of our books.

Please note that collectors still working through their payment plans will have their copies shipped once the final payments are completed.

Ludlow will begin dispatching copies on Monday November 20th to European collectors.

A pallet’s worth of copies were sent to us last week and they are now in Ontario, with delivery expected at any moment.

To mitigate the risk of damage during shipping, we worked with a local packaging company to design and manufacture custom foam inserts for Faun, providing complete protection to all sides and corners.

Printing is well underway at Nomad Letterpress on their proofing press.

The deckled edges of the handmade paper—lacking a straight, even edge—require careful attention when feeding them into the gripper so as to ensure the lines on each side of a sheet are all perfectly aligned when printed.

Lettered copies are expected to ship in Q1 2024 and Roman Numeral copies in Q2 2024, as Svetlana’s hand-drawn calligraphy is highly detailed and will take considerable time.

Flowers for Algernon
Although Flowers for Algernon will go on sale next week, we are able to share an update. Hand and Eye expects to finish printing right after Christmas, and with all artwork having already been completed, we expect copies to be shipped before the end of the first quarter 2024. More next week!

Nov 15, 6:39 pm

The custom made shipping boxes are fantastic. That's how I wanna receive my book.

Nov 20, 10:18 am

The standard and numbered of 'Flowers for Algernon' look quite nice. The lettered, as is so often the case these days, is veering a bit towards tacky.

Nov 20, 10:24 am

>362 wooter: That numbered binding looks like it could've been a lettered edition from many other presses! I am also glad to see them upgrading the paper with each state, rather than just dressing up the same text-block for either the numbered or lettered.

I've been loving the mix of tipped in paintings and relief-printed illustrations in many recent fine press editions, though I'm not sure how I feel about half or more of the illustrations being simple character portraits - it seems like there could have been more to do with the novel than that.

Editado: Nov 20, 10:40 am

I'm blown away by all 3 states.
1. Gorgeous Illustrations
2. Nice leather + stamping
3. Great Paper
4. I like the leather on the Slipcase + the suede lining.
5. Phenomenal

But I have to confess that iam a little shocked by the Limitation change 😳

Standard: previously 500 > 250
Deluxe: previously 200 > 175

Editado: Nov 20, 5:20 pm

>362 wooter:

As is more often than not the case, the Numbered Edition hits the sweet spot between cost and the Arts of the Book. Compared with the Standard Edition, an additional $350 gets you a beautiful binding in full goatskin leather with extensive foil stamping throughout the entire binding, a much finer paper and a substantial upgrade in the design and quality of the slipcase.

Nov 20, 10:34 am

What I would like to see, but its just an personal preference is an frontispiece from the Author. Keyes sadly passed away some time now, so there won't be a signature.

Suntup is doing this with Psycho I saw.
Aswell as the classic Lyras Books publication.

Nov 20, 10:42 am

The numbered is the most appealing binding but I'm not a fan of the illustrations. That loose brushstroke look and so many character portraits isn't for me.

Nov 20, 10:47 am

>367 LeBacon:
It's fitting the story very well.

Nov 20, 10:50 am

I really like what I see of the Deluxe edition, and agree with >365 dlphcoracl: that it hits the sweet spot. Will order it on Wednesday 😊

Nov 20, 10:52 am

Do you all think the numbered edition will sell out quickly? I have some thinking to do :)

Editado: Nov 20, 10:56 am

>368 BookMercenary: Yes, not inappropriate to the story and for that style of painting it's very skillfully executed but not a style I like at all.

At this price I have to really love the illustrations and character portraits aren't something I want to pull off the shelf and revisit.

Nov 20, 11:03 am

>371 LeBacon:
I have full understanding for that.

>370 Lukas1990:
I would say yes, but you never know.
CTP never showed any available stocks, so I don't know how well the other two books sold. Not as promised maybe, so the lower limitation this time?

Flowers for Algernon nevertheless is an very well known, famous story, which never had an fine press treatment.
I hope it sells out, so Tony can plan the money for new great publications, without worrying.

Editado: Nov 20, 11:29 am

>371 LeBacon: >372 BookMercenary: Faun has sold less than 150 copies at this point as rights are still available, so unless there's a of collectors looking to guarantee a copy of Algernon, there will be more than the 25 rights-free copies available in the general presale after current numbered collectors claim theirs.

I will say that this edition likely appeals more to the typical fine-press collector than Faun, however I was surprised that Faun escaped the usual genre author craze, so you never know.

Nov 20, 1:34 pm

The illustrations remind me a bit of Nushka's illustrations for Folio Society's Limited Edition of Madame Bovary. I think these sets of illustrations are very fitting to both books.

Nov 20, 1:39 pm

>374 Dr.Fiddy:

Excellent observation and analogy. FWIW, I agree and intend to purchase the Deluxe (Numbered Edition) on Wednesday.

Nov 20, 2:49 pm

The design of the Standard edition is quite a let-down, almost like an after-thought. At least the Peter Pan had some foil stamping and some color.

Nov 20, 4:49 pm

I would be surprised if the lettered and numbered don’t sell out. These look excellent

Editado: Nov 21, 4:24 am

>376 Inceptic: Yeah, I'm also disappointed by what I can see of the Standard edition. I was just saying the other day that the word 'Standard' should in no way be used to describe Lyra's Coraline, but in this case it seems quite appropriate (incidentally Coraline was also cheaper than this one). It just seems a little bland, and like something your grandmother would write her shopping list in. Though probably it'll be better 'in the flesh'. I would also have liked to see the slipcase, examples of the typography and the artist's five line drawings. Given that the books are currently being printed I'm not sure why these couldn't be shown.

I was considering this one but I think I'll pass. Just doesn't tick enough boxes and it's been an expensive period. Still hoping to pick up the Marc Castelli-illustrated book though.

Nov 21, 6:03 am

>378 Levin40: I would also have liked to see the slipcase, examples of the typography and the artist's five line drawings. Given that the books are currently being printed I'm not sure why these couldn't be shown.

Examples of the typography and the artist's line drawings can be found near the end of this blog post:

Editado: Nov 21, 7:07 am

Compared to the last two standard editions , this looks indeed a little "dull",
but I bet this edition will be looking extremely splendid in real life.
It's just an mock up, isn't it ?

You get an 250-330 pages long letterpress printed book...
(If you like the illustrations) 9 oil painted pictures and 5 letterpress printed line drawings. (Which is alot)

I dont want to compare some publishers that are so totally different, but I do nevertheless..

The price compared to Suntups Edition is higher, but aren't 60% of the artist suntup editions dull aswell ?
Steal the Dustwrapper from the Book and you have just some cloth bound book, nothing special. ( not always the case)

Here you get an letterpress printed paper in which the book is bound + the spine Name printed letterpress aswell (maybe foil stamped it would look better, I don't know)
The Slipcase compared to Suntups editions is upgraded aswell, because it has an suede lining.

To make it short... everyone has his personal taste, but you get alot for youre money in this standard edition, in my humble opinion.

//this will be an extremely rare book aswell, which makes it even more special and it is bound by well known book artisans aswell 😁

Editado: Nov 21, 8:51 am

>378 Levin40: "I would also have liked to see the slipcase, examples of the typography and the artist's five line drawings."

Thanks for the reminder, not including the line drawings in the Artwork gallery was a complete oversight on my part. I've added the title page and spreads for all the line drawings. Clicking on the images will now create a "lightbox" popup that allows you to view them a little better.

Nov 21, 9:27 am

>381 CTPress-Tony:
Looks great. Thank you. I will go for the Deluxe state 🙂

Editado: Nov 21, 9:37 am

>381 CTPress-Tony: I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask - can we expect the Weird series to debut some time in the next few months? Is there a possibly of more than one Weird edition in 2024?

Nov 21, 9:53 am

>383 LeBacon: With so many moving parts and our goal of reducing the time as much as possible between pre-order and delivery, I can't commit to anything. But at least one volume in 2024 looks likely, yes.

Nov 21, 10:33 am

>381 CTPress-Tony:

The illustrations are sensational (for myself, anyway). Unlike many books lumped into the sci-fi genre, Flowers for Algernon has a more human element with a sad, wistful aspect that is part of the 'be careful of what you wish for' theme of this novel. The impressionist color illustrations by Jacob Dhein are entirely in keeping this and the line drawings are integrated beautifully with the text. This one is a no-brainer, an automatic purchase.

Nov 21, 11:51 am

Hmpf, wow.
I cant see why people say the Standard Edition looks bland and dull.
In my opinion it's extremely beautiful looking.

The CTP Standard Editions are so far the most creative Books I have seen in this specific state.

Tony could just have done an Dustjacket like every other publisher those days is doing, bind the book in some cloth and be done with it.

The Book may be an bit more expensive then other publishers standard state, but you cannot compare them with what Tony did here.

If the Book would be quarter bound in "white" leather , it could pass as an deluxe edition without problems.

The Coraline Book from Lyras has less then half the page count that this Book has. The type setting is just really big in Coraline, it could easily count as short story. Maybe it is, I don't know tbh.
An comparison is not fair as long as you don't hold both editions in hand.

Nov 21, 12:25 pm

I received my shipping notification for Faun right now. 😎

Nov 22, 8:52 am

I personally think all three editions are beautiful including the standard.
Very happy with how the deluxe looks and another definite buy for me.
Completely blown away by the lettered, and wish I could afford it! The concept showcasing wabi-sabi kintsugi is apt for this title and well thought out. I especially love the endpapers and the flower paper lining the bottom of the case.
Can't wait to receive Faun and Peter Pan and looking forward to what's next for CTP

Nov 22, 9:50 am

>388 Praveenna_Nagaratnam:

Frankly, I could not agree more with you.

The book designs, choice of artists/illustrators, quality of materials, and execution have been exceptional. Although Peter Pan was certainly not high on my hit list of books I had wished to read or collect, the beauty of the Deluxe book design and the Charles Vess illustrations were difficult for me to pass on. Flowers for Algernon is a book I had wanted to collect in a fine edition for some time and, again, the Deluxe edition checks all of my boxes.

Nov 22, 10:10 am

Just ordered the Deluxe Flowers for Algernon. Got a shipping notification for Faun yesterday and hopefully Peter Pan before Christmas. So, all is good 😊 Like others, can’t wait to see what's next for CTP...

Nov 22, 10:19 am

I’ve also preordered the Deluxe. Quite excited for this one!

Nov 22, 10:21 am

Like I said above, the Deluxe looks phenomenal and the Illustrations fit the book very well.
I'm really excited to see what is coming next. Three amazing branches are awaiting us. The Castelli Book, the WEIRD cycle and the teased Trilogie.

There are 6 letterpress printed illustrations in the book. Are those created through copperplates?

Nov 22, 10:32 am

>392 Libri_mea_vita_sunt:

The planned CVT 'Trilogy' is especially intriguing. Although the obvious initial thought is Lord of the Rings, there were many other interesting suggestions when this question was posed on this forum. It will be most interesting to see what Tony Geer has up his sleeve.

Nov 22, 10:35 am

I'm in for a Standard edition as I was for Peter Pan. The design is restrained, but I like it, and I am always happy to see a quarter cloth binding with decorative letterpress paper for the boards. Even though I am yet to receive a book from them, I have a lot of faith in this press and their book designs. I hope it's a great success and they keep on producing standard editions for all their upcoming books!

One small thing: $37 for shipping within the UK seems quite high and it was a bit of a shock at the final moment (It was $22 for Peter Pan). I guess I just need to rationalise this by thinking of it as containing admin costs that are otherwise rolled into the product price by other presses.

It's still much cheaper than if it was coming directly from Canada though, and for that I'm grateful of course.

Nov 22, 10:52 am

Ordered my deluxe as well - the upgrade from standard continues to offer a lot of value with the paper and exceptional binding designs

>392 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I would assume polymer .

Editado: Nov 22, 11:02 am

>394 GardenOfForkingPaths:
Could be the custom made foam calculated within the price.
>393 dlphcoracl:
If it happens to be LotR every state and every edition will sell out in 24h.
I would love that. Lovely illustrated, bound in leather and printed letterpress on some very nice durable paper.
Just WOW.

My Faun Deluxe will arrive me on Monday next week. That will be an special day. The first book of the press that is finished. 🙂

>395 NathanOv:
Copperplates would be to expensive and complex I assume.

Nov 22, 11:18 am

>395 NathanOv:

Not to mention the substantial upgrade in the quality of the slipcase.

Editado: Nov 22, 12:19 pm

>392 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Through photopolymer plates that Phil at Hand & Eye makes inhouse.

Thank you to everyone who ordered a copy, and thank you as well to everyone for all the feedback.

I've updated the Standard state product page with a couple of new photos, including this one:

Nov 22, 12:09 pm

Ordered all three states - impossible to resist, as I said elsewhere.

Nov 22, 12:17 pm

>398 CTPress-Tony:

That is gorgeous. Nothing 'standard' about it at all.

Editado: Nov 22, 12:27 pm

>400 dlphcoracl:
Exactly my what I said and think 😊

>398 CTPress-Tony:
Thank you 🙂

They new pictures for the standard state look very promising.

Nov 22, 12:41 pm

I ordered a standard. I was tempted to wait until Friday to get a deluxe, but my impatience (and need to manage my spending) won!

Nov 22, 12:47 pm

I ordered a Deluxe copy, and am very much looking forward to reading this book (my first time) in a fine press edition.

And as others have said, there is very little that is standard about the Standard.

Nov 22, 12:52 pm

I think the standard looks wonderful. Beautifully done, elegant, restrained. Not every book needs to be tarted up as if it was the magna carta itself. ;)

Editado: Nov 22, 1:00 pm

>398 CTPress-Tony: Thanks very much! I have to say the Standard does look so much better with a few tweaks and a nicer photo. And the slipcase! So I have to modify what I said in my earlier post and admit that I'm quite tempted now...Only thing I wish is that there was a counter. I'd like to have a some idea of how long I have to make the decision.

Nov 22, 1:04 pm

To have no counter is an smart thing to sell some couple more copy's in my opinion. People, like me aswell, tend to panic and are anxious to miss the opportunity to buy.
Nevertheless I love an counter aswell, because iam an very curious person .

Nov 22, 1:06 pm

>406 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Don't panic, breathe easy, it's just a book ;)

Nov 22, 1:09 pm

>407 Lukas1990:
Just a book you said. My poor heart... the pain... 🥲

Nov 22, 1:27 pm

>405 Levin40:

Collector's Tip:

If you think you want the book, buy it, especially because the Standard Edition is not prohibitively expensive. My "educated" guess is that all three editions will sell rather quickly because Flowers for Algernon has a bit of a cult following. It was one of the earliest of the modern (1950-present) sci-fi novels yet it crosses into mainstream literature as well. You will always be able to sell this at a later date if you decide you do not wish to keep it.

Remember: Non-Buyer's Remorse is far worse than Buyer's Remorse. If it goes OOP and you do not have a copy it will irritate you for years.

Nov 22, 1:37 pm

>409 dlphcoracl: so true !!

Nov 22, 2:16 pm

>398 CTPress-Tony: I think that's a fine looking binding, and it does bespeak quality press to me.

Nov 22, 2:46 pm

>409 dlphcoracl: Oh yes, that's why I ordered the standard this morning. I believe I last read this book in the sixth grade, and the emotional punch of it remains strong in my memory.

But it's the artwork I'm going for. The color paintings especially. (And as silly as this sounds, the one of Algernon might be my favorite! But they're all stunning.

Nov 22, 2:56 pm

>409 dlphcoracl: You're right - I caved and ordered. I was initially skeptical about this one but have been convinced by the examples of the typography and the line drawings, and especially by the much-improved photo of the standard edition posted above. The power of good marketing, haha!

Nov 22, 3:29 pm

>413 Levin40:

I speak from bitter experience. The very few times I procrastinated and saw an edition I was debating over go OOP, I regretted it for years and felt far worse over it than a book I purchased but later decided I really didn't want or need. To throw salt in the wound, when I attempted to purchased these titles at a later date, they did not appear in the market for several years and, when they did, their cost had risen substantially over the initial offering price.

Trust the dlphcoracl on this one.

Nov 22, 6:07 pm

>394 GardenOfForkingPaths: One small thing: $37 for shipping within the UK seems quite high and it was a bit of a shock at the final moment

$72.92 delivery cost to HK. I was about to order the standard edition but shipping adds more than 25% to the cost of the book. Other presses are charging far less for delivery.

Nov 22, 6:11 pm

>415 Pendrainllwyn: Presses really need to start putting up shipping cost charts ahead of orders, especially if they’re so far off from the regular market rates.

Nov 22, 6:28 pm

>416 NathanOv: Yes. Happy to pay proper prices. I don't think CTP are overcharging. I think what is happening here is CTP are only offering express delivery in 3 business days. I am happy to wait longer and pay less - as long as it arrives safely. There are other books to be read whilst I wait.

Editado: Nov 22, 9:48 pm

>417 Pendrainllwyn:
If you wait longer for youre packages to arrive the risk of getting missing/lost gets higher every day.

Not sure if it's Express. Mine will arrive next Tuesday...
It was sent on 20.11

Nov 22, 10:05 pm

I find shipping companies don't count the weekend days when they calculate their package in-transit times.

Nov 23, 12:23 am

>418 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: True enough. I can't argue with that.

Nov 23, 9:53 am

Ordered my Deluxe as well :) Eagerly awaiting further details on the Marc Castelli title

Nov 23, 10:34 am

I also ordered the deluxe... I was not particularly jazzed about the title when it was announced but the pics of the binding won me over. I guess you can get me with a pretty book.

Nov 24, 2:14 pm

Put my order in for a Deluxe copy. Hoping I got a copy with rights!

Nov 24, 2:21 pm

Love the binding, not into the actual book sadly so will be passing but for those that find this story compelling it does look to be a nicely done book.

Nov 24, 2:35 pm

No sellout so far, but I hope the sold books so far cover some of Tony's costs.
I love his work. I cant deny it.

Iam not into this business, but I see that an sellout is no "Suntup thing" alone anymore. So I really wonder wheather it's really just the titles that people aren't interested in or something else and how the publisher is effected if alot of books don't sell for quiet some time.

Editado: Nov 24, 2:38 pm

>425 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Looks like the Deluxe edition is three quarters sold - a Folio Society-style note has been added to the page.

Books selling out within minutes is is definitely not the norm, but only something I’ve seen for a few presses. I don’t know if it’s realistic that a press plan its finances on all of its books selling within a very, very short period.

Nov 24, 2:53 pm

426: That implies that over 130 (but likely fewer than 140) copies have been sold. Not bad at all. Deluxe Faun also bears the same note, i.e., fewer than 50 copies remain.

Editado: Nov 24, 3:19 pm

Tony is spying on us 😂
He heared our prayers
3/4 is very good I assume

Nov 24, 5:46 pm

Torn between Standard and Deluxe and went for Deluxe in the end. My first CTP title. I have been encouraged by the many positive reviews expressed here.

Nov 24, 6:35 pm

>429 Pendrainllwyn: How can there be positive reviews, or any reviews for that matter, from a press that has not yet shipped any books (that I’m aware of)? Don’t get me wrong, I’m intrigued by the press and hopeful that they will deliver on their promises, I’ve ordered and paid for all three titles but I think one needs a copy in hand to do a review.

I too have chosen the Deluxe edition.

Nov 24, 6:50 pm

I think it's better if a press doesn't sell out of everything immediately - they need to have enough copies left over so that when word of mouth builds, people can immediately obtain something, and don't just get frustrated and move on.

Nov 24, 7:22 pm

430: Well, technically, Faun shipped on Monday and, in all likelihood, the first buyers should already be in possession of their copies. Not yours truly, though - UPS is in no hurry to get it here, and I only expect to pick up mine next Friday (after two weeks in transit, that is).

Nov 24, 7:26 pm

>430 kdweber: First copies of Faun arrived over the past few days and have been getting comments on Facebook and the like.

Nov 25, 12:39 am

>430 kdweber: Comments may have been a better word than reviews. You must have been somewhat impressed to order all three titles.

Nov 25, 1:26 am

>434 Pendrainllwyn: Yes, their work looks impressive and worth the risk. It will be nice to hear from the first recipients of Faun. It’s also interesting to hear how well a publisher packs their books. Considering the substantial postage I expect they’ll be well protected and arrive in pristine condition.

Editado: Nov 25, 2:27 am

>435 kdweber: they have it packed like Suntup, if I saw correctly.
With custom made foam. Very impressive.
See here:

Nov 25, 5:07 am

Last call for the Deluxe Algernon - 24 copies left.

Editado: Nov 25, 6:35 am

So strange.
If this would have been an Suntup Book, with only 6 Illustrations (even if those would have been not so nice), every of the 750 standard and 250 numbered would have sold so far 😂

The absolute not so nice, loveless made Poe Book sold out in less then 24h.

Nov 25, 6:47 am

Why is it strange that an established press that’s spent years building its customer base and establishing a reputation would sell out faster than a nearly brand new entrant into the fine press field?

Editado: Nov 25, 7:15 am

>438 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: You bring up Suntup in almost half of your posts, it’s beginning to be a bit irritating. Relax a little bit with Suntup and with the comparisons lol.

I exaggerate with the ‘‘half’’ part, but you do seem to talk about Suntup a lot, no matter the thread.

Nov 25, 7:19 am

>439 ambyrglow:
Everyone knows Ludlow book binders and their excellent reputation. The book showcases online and the used materials by Tony are top notch aswell.

And we do not talk about "faster". We talk about 1000 books nearly each month that sell out often in 24 - 72h.

I would just be interested for my own sake, if its really the Fan base or the speculation on reselling for profit, since Suntup is so famous.

Like I said before is selling out no Suntup thing anymore. Curious King and Lyras Book do regularly.

I do not want to blame anyone. I would just love to hear some opinions from people that are longer in this hobby then me :)

Nov 25, 7:21 am

>440 Nerevarine:
Haha . That's very true. I cant deny it.
I started this hobby through Suntup and I have the urge to compare everything with this publisher, because its so fascinating on the business side.

I should really relax 😁

Editado: Nov 25, 7:31 am

>442 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Are you that Ragnaroek fellow ?

He too loved to talk about Suntup and we don’t see him anymore. :)

But when I reread my previous message, it came across more rude than I intended. Do speak about your passion in any way you desire. Who am I to tell you what to write ? I didn’t meant it that way. I just meant that there is a specific thread about Suntup.

In fact, I love your enthusiasm for books.

Nov 25, 7:44 am

443: ...and he is gone again. You must have blown his cover. ;^)

Nov 25, 7:48 am

>444 supercell: Was it a cover though?😀😁
I thought everyone knew.

Nov 25, 7:58 am

445: Well, I certainly suspected it. After all, the writing styles were strikingly similar.

Editado: Nov 25, 11:33 am

>442 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Paul does a fantastic job of connecting with his customers and giving them what they want. He's a terrific marketer. A lot of business people could learn from him.

Edit: but on topic- I'm very much looking forward to getting some CTP books in hand.

Nov 25, 11:41 am

I don’t disagree with the praise that Suntup received for its marketing. However their schedule is also well known with one book a month and so consumers can know ahead of time (approximately) what the cost will be.

I do think part of the issue here is the number of books that are being launched within a 3 month window. Flowers for Algernon is a book that has had requests (at least from Folio Society readers) for a long time, and yet the book hasn’t sold out. Benjamin Button from Arête didn’t sell out. Allegedly Folio Society’s ‘Moonstone’ sold poorly (at least initially). Curious King did well with ‘Hyperion’ however this wasn’t available in the standard state (and ‘The Fifth Season’ is still available in the standard state).

I think if this had been launched in January then the lettered and numbered would have sold out very quickly.

Nov 25, 11:43 am

Ordered the deluxe. No doubt it will be excellent given the design previews and the craftspeople involved. Also the title has some personal connection for me as it is one of the few stories I read as an assignment for pre-university school that I enjoyed despite the obligation and about which I have fond memories.

I do also plan to get a copy of Peter Pan at some point, I just haven't been able to make up my mind on the standard versus the deluxe. I generally care more about internals than binding, which biases toward the standard given the quite high cost of the deluxe, but in this case I'm not sure.

Nov 26, 8:29 pm

>444 supercell: So what happened? Did Libri_mea_vita_sunt break LT rules? Just curious :)

Editado: Nov 26, 8:52 pm

>450 astropi:
Removed himself for some reason I suspect.

Nov 26, 10:56 pm

>435 kdweber: I have bought secondhand from Tony before (Folio Society letterpress Shakespeares) and he packed those very well, so I am assuming these will be too.

That purchase from him is def a reason I was willing to preorder multiple books before anything had been finished.

Nov 26, 10:58 pm

>448 DMulvee: I don't really understand why I would pay what, with shipping, would amount to about $450 for FS Moonstone when I could get the Arion version for not that much more

Nov 27, 2:34 am

>453 katielouise: Or the LEC Moonstone for a fraction of that ($44 in my case).

Nov 27, 7:20 am

>454 kdweber: There's also the upcoming edition from Kings Langley Press -

Nov 28, 5:47 am

Received my Deluxe Faun today, and it is just magnificent!!!
This is really promising for what is to come, so can't wait... 😊

Nov 28, 7:02 am

456: Congrats. My standard is now trucking somewhere in Central Sweden, and still needs to cross the Baltic and clear the customs before I get to lay my hands on it (thank goodness I do not live in the north of the country, or I would be looking at next Tuesday instead of this Friday). Meanwhile, I have been trying to google for early reviews or unboxing videos, but to no avail.

Nov 28, 8:14 am

>456 Dr.Fiddy:

As the CVT books are published and reach customers, e.g., Peter Pan, Flowers for Algernon, the forthcoming Marc Castelli illustrated book, CVT will quickly be recognized as a top tier new private press. Deciding upon what to publish will become critical going forward.

Nov 28, 8:45 am

>458 dlphcoracl: Well we know Weird is coming. I'm most likely going to try to ride the deluxe edition rights train on that series. Can't wait to see what direction they go with the design.

Editado: Nov 28, 8:59 am

>458 dlphcoracl: this comment got me thinking. what defines a private press? isn't the actual printing and binding outsourced by CVT? that's not a criticism, per se, but when is a press actually a press? I fully realize that I am splitting hairs here, just curious on what others think. BTW - please post pictures of your copy.

Nov 28, 9:14 am

>460 wooter:

This has been discussed and debated ad nauseum. Personally, the things I associate with a true private press are:

1. Letterpress printing

2. Limited edition, preferably under 500 copies.

3. Handmade or mould-made paper.

4. Distinctive binding of their own design.

Nov 28, 9:30 am

>456 Dr.Fiddy: I’m curious, was this one of the North American copies or one shipped from Ludlow?

Looking forward to getting my copy as well!

Nov 28, 9:41 am

>461 dlphcoracl: I think you missed their point, which is that can you be called a 'top tier private press' if you outsource all your printing and binding? Aren't you just a publisher at that point or, say, a 'fine press publisher'?

Nov 28, 9:42 am

>463 Levin40:


Consider the Nawakum Press, for example.

Nov 28, 9:49 am

>464 dlphcoracl: Well, I wasn't aware of how Nawakum Press operate but a quick look at their site ( reveals a clear statement:

Nawakum Press owes a great deal to those individuals whom it relies on to help fully express its vision. The Press is only a publishing entity and possesses no equipment. It entrusts production of its editions to a select number of experienced and gifted book artisans practicing at the highest level of their craft.

So I'm not sure you're entirely correct.

Nov 28, 9:52 am

>462 NathanOv: It was shipped from Ludlow.

Nov 28, 10:00 am

>465 Levin40: like >461 dlphcoracl: said, this is a recurring topic here, but I think it’s pretty clear from how the word’s been used over the past century that being a press doesn’t require having a press.

Envisioning a publication and being able to bring together and coordinate the right craftspeople to bring it to life is a skill unto itself.

Editado: Nov 28, 10:04 am

>465 Levin40: I incline the same way. If I make the books myself, then I can call my operation a "private press" or "fine press" or combination thereof. If I outsource the printing to, say, Hand & Eye or No Reply, and then have the pages bound by Ludlow, I'm a publisher, and that should be tacked onto one of the appellations above.

Unless I've fundamentally misunderstood their operations, someone like Incline Press is a fine private press, and someone like Nawakum Press is a fine press publisher.

But yes, ultimately the waters are murky enough that one must decide for themself where the boundary lies. As a recipient of these books, I'm not sure the distinction matters so much as the end product.

Nov 28, 10:20 am

>467 NathanOv: Yes, I'm absolutely not saying there isn't huge amounts of work done being done in concept development, design, typesetting, coordination etc etc. Just that these are typically the tasks of a publisher.

>468 Shadekeep: Yes, agreed. In then end it doesn't matter too much. However, I've taken a closer look at the CTP site and it actually states: I will print small editions in small limitations in my own workshop under the imprint Conversation Tree Press Editions, and publish larger editions in larger limitations under Conversation Tree Press. My workshop is equipped with a Heidelberg Windmill, a Saroglia “Canuck” cylinder proofing press and a selection of metal type.

So wow! They are intending to be a 'true' Press too. Very interested to find out which titles they have in mind for in-house printing.

Nov 28, 12:07 pm

>469 Levin40: Well spotted! I'm intrigued to see what they'll bring out under that imprint as well.

Nov 28, 12:11 pm

>470 Shadekeep: I'm quite excited for these as well. I'd love to see a run of companion chapbooks to the Weird series, or the original "Flower's For Algernon" short story done to complement the novel. Though I suspect they'll be standalone editions, which I am also interested to see.

Editado: Nov 28, 12:54 pm

>468 Shadekeep: I think this is how most institutions and curators use the terms.

"Fine press" is a matter of craftsmanship.

"Private press" is a matter of operation, wherein the publisher and bookmaker are the same person(s).

Editado: Nov 28, 1:00 pm

>468 Shadekeep: Though I disagree about it not mattering much! Many collections (including mine!) are focused entirely on private press editions. I am enormously interested in the publisher/craftsman relationship.

I think everybody here should buy a tabletop Excelsior and a case of type, and start their own private press from their kitchen table. Doesn't mean the books will be any good! But certainly private press.

Nov 28, 1:01 pm

>467 NathanOv: Happy to agree with you on something.

>473 grifgon: Does your approach influence how you collect to the extent where you won’t purchase a book that’s well made because it wasn’t printed by the publisher?

Nov 28, 1:23 pm

>474 What_What: I don't have a categorical ban on fine press books which aren't also private press, if that's what you're asking. But it's not my focus. I think I have like three Arion Press editions, one Suntup edition, etc. – compared to something like ninety Aralia editions.

Nov 28, 1:37 pm

>474 What_What: Well, I think we agree on the word "press," but there is undeniably a long private press tradition of books made entirely in-house. I'm probably not as selective as Griffin, but it's a category of books I actively seek out.

Nov 28, 2:04 pm

>460 wooter: As noted, this has been debated ad nauseam. I do agree with dlphcoracl -- see below.

>461 dlphcoracl: I agree, with two caveats. I will say the limitation number can be anything. The LEC typically published 1500 copies, but no one would argue they are not true fine press. Also, in my definition the paper does not have to be hand-made. It does however have to be "high-quality", which I realize is vague.

Editado: Nov 28, 2:14 pm

>473 grifgon: Oh, I do think it matters in terms of the book and its production. I just don't think it matters quite so much as a semantic debate. It's clear the terms themselves mean different things to different people, so I'm not invested in forcing everyone into my nomenclature. But it does matter to me personally how the book is made!

I think everybody here should buy a tabletop Excelsior...

Is an Adana okay as well? They seem a little easier for me to find.

Editado: Nov 28, 2:58 pm

>478 Shadekeep: I suppose an Adana will do! Shoot me an email if you're actually shopping for tabletops.

When you get your Adana and publish your first edition (presumably my Italian slam poetry collection, Il leone e l'aquila all'interno), then I think it's useful to have a term that indicates that the publisher and bookmaker are one and the same person. Traditionally that term has been "private press," so that's the way I use the term. To each their own, entirely. But if other collectors are finding themselves using "fine press" and "private press" interchangeably, and desire to get more use out of the terms, I recommend taking up the traditional definitions. I find that thinking of, say, Jason Dewinetz's recent If The Winds Come as a private press book (and supremely so – he wrote, typeset, printed, and bound it himself) helps to sharpen my appreciation for and understanding of it.

P. S. I'm glad somebody here pointed out Tony's plans to publish under a second imprint, Conversation Tree Press Editions, which will consist of books made by him in his own workshop. I literally cannot wait for these.

Nov 28, 3:01 pm

>479 grifgon: I will chat with you about presses further, thanks. And be assured that if I ever do produce something myself, I will suddenly be very insistent about accurate terminology! ^_^

Editado: Nov 30, 2:11 pm

Does anyone know if this will be shipped directly to customers from Ludlows or from Conversation Tree Press.

Got a reply, and orders from Europe are fulfilled by Ludlows, which suits me quite well.

Nov 30, 2:07 pm

>481 SF-72: It depends. Copies in Europe are shipping directly from Ludlow and copies in North America are said to be coming in two separate batches from Conversation Tree Press, depending on when you ordered. I'm actually not sure about the rest of the world.

Nov 30, 2:13 pm

>481 SF-72:

Thank you, to me Europe was relevant. I'd considered using a US forwarding service since the publisher is in the US, but it's better to get it directly from Ludlows in the UK for Germany.

Editado: Nov 30, 2:28 pm

>483 SF-72: Oh, are you talking about placing a new order? I would confirm with the press then, as I was referring to the copies of Faun that are currently shipping and am not sure how they are handling unsold copies or future titles.

I believe they are in Ontario, Canada so not sure how much a US forwarding service would save you.

Nov 30, 4:35 pm

>484 NathanOv:

Thank you very much, I thought they were in the US, my mistake. But yes, it's a new order and Ludlow's are doing the shipping to Germany for them. Using a forwarder in the US for a Canadian parcel wouldn't be an option anyway since they don't accept parcels with customs fees on them, which might well happen in such a case.

Dez 1, 9:33 am

Received my Standard and Deluxe Faun(s) via UPS earlier this week. Was definitely not a smooth sailing journey for the books, but after many a delay they did arrive safely. Needless to say (??) love both! Can't wait for the lettered early next year. And of course Pan this month. (fingers crossed)


Dez 3, 11:33 am

Bumping the >409 dlphcoracl: advice that "Non-Buyer's Remorse is far worse than Buyer's Remorse. If it goes OOP and you do not have a copy it will irritate you for years."

So, if you're considering the Deluxe Edition of Flowers for Algernon, there are only 3 copies left before it goes OOP...

Dez 3, 3:03 pm

2... i stole a copy myself.

Editado: Dez 3, 5:47 pm

Now just one. Also, Deluxe Faun is down to 22 copies.

Edit (30 mins later): That's all, folks!