Israel #6

Foreign Affairs seems to offer one free article before subscription required.
I remember my Cdn military dad, once a UN peacekeeper (Suez) being sad to see Lebanon in war w Israel (1982): he remembered Lebanon as a beautiful place (a "Riviera"). Gaza, he pitied as a poor, dry and rocky place. Still, article below finds similarities from Lebanon for Israel's war on Gaza. To paraphrase Rahm Emanuel (and others), hopefully this time a crisis will not go to waste.

The Ghosts of Lebanon
To See What Lies Ahead in Gaza, Look Back to Israel’s 1982 Invasion
Sarah E. Parkinson* | November 14, 2023

...The similarities between Israel’s {1982} invasion of Lebanon and its operations in Gaza go beyond just the choice of tactics. Then, as now, the invasion began after a shocking Palestinian attack. Then, as now, Israel’s hawkish leaders opted for a maximalist response. Then, as now, much of the fighting took place in densely populated urban areas, with militants often interspersed among civilians. And then, as now, the IDF used disproportionate force.

This parallel is not heartening. If Lebanon is any guide, Israel’s war in Gaza will end poorly for both Palestinians and Israelis. Despite its military superiority, Israel never succeeded in eradicating the PLO. Instead, the IDF’s primary accomplishments were killing tens of thousands of civilians; fragmenting Palestinian groups into smaller cells that spent years conducting hit-and-run operations; inspiring the rise of a new Lebanese militant party, Hezbollah; and losing over 1,000 of its own citizens in an occupation that stretched until 2000. It is a pattern that is already playing out again...

...the military and humanitarian lessons of Lebanon strongly suggest that the current catastrophic conditions in Gaza will grow only more acute and that there will be long-term, disastrous consequences for all parties. Israel’s long-standing approach to urban warfare, its plans for occupation (Netanyahu has said that Israel will assume “overall security responsibility” for Gaza for an “indefinite period of time”), its alliances with nonstate militias, and its use of mass imprisonment all echo what happened in Lebanon. It is therefore hard to imagine the outcome will be substantively different.

...the military and humanitarian lessons of Lebanon strongly suggest that the current catastrophic conditions in Gaza will grow only more acute and that there will be long-term, disastrous consequences for all parties...

That extends, unfortunately, to the death toll...

Palestinian casualty numbers, of course, dwarf Israeli ones—another indication of just how disproportionate IDF tactics are...

Despite the likely consequences today, Israel has not been willing to consider a cease-fire, claiming that it would mean victory for Hamas...misleading. A cease-fire’s real winners would be civilians and nonviolent social movements...A cease-fire’s losers, by contrast, would be Hamas and Israeli hard-liners...

Given the current, high tensions, it is hard to say how or when this war might end...

If Biden does {push for end to Gaza war}, he would follow a precedent set by another U.S. president: Ronald Reagan...

There is evidence that the administration’s demands forced Israeli decision makers to change their behavior. {in Lebanon}...

Today, Biden must again use U.S. influence to push for an end to an Israeli war. A cease-fire is the only politically reasonable, security-enhancing, and morally defensible policy to advocate, especially if Washington has any hope of remaining a respected player in the Middle East. The alternative is to condemn the people of Gaza—most of whom oppose Hamas—to more bombs, bullets, and burns. It is to make them endure continued dehydration, starvation, and disease. It is to take an already impoverished, massively overcrowded enclave and set any chance it has at development back by decades. It is likely to create a new generation of militants who will risk their lives to fight Israel. “This has all happened before” is the strongest argument there is to stop something from happening again.

* SARAH E. PARKINSON is the Aronson Assistant Professor of Political Science and International Studies at Johns Hopkins University. She is the author of Beyond the Lines: Social Networks and Palestinian Militant Organizations in Wartime Lebanon.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/ghosts-lebanon

Fact Check: Did Israel Build Bunker Under Shifa Hospital?
Newsweek | Nov 15, 2023

...True.

Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel's discretion {SIC "direction"?} in the 1980s.

It remains unclear whether Hamas operates the space beneath the hospital as a major military headquarters, even though the IDF has presented evidence of weapons stashed in the hospital...

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-israel-build-bunker-under-shifa-hospital...

>2 margd: I believe it was 1983. Aerial photographs also have a squared off opening in the ground next to one of the hospital buildings that the IDF has also made out to be an underground tunnel or bunker which instead is a cistern to collect water. Considering the dearth of clean water in Gaza that makes a lot of sense for a hospital to have that.

The Israeli human shield defense of killing a lot of people to get to a couple or a few is a war crime. If cops had blown up the Parkland School to (safely for them) get to the shooter but killing a bunch of kids in the meanwhile people would rightly have been enraged. I don't know why they think that this logic passes muster but unfortunately it's good enough for a lot of our own politicians.

Still working through the Johnson, Jeffries, Schumer Rocky moment at the pro Israel gathering the other day. Really really weird. Add in John Hagee and it takes us into bizarro land. Don't people know who this nut is?

>3 lriley: Larry, I'm very sorry to tell you that before long, people will.

Two very important reports that very much go together.

'The fear is everywhere': Israel's fascist internal crackdown | The Marc Steiner Show
71,840 views Nov 14, 2023 The Real News Network Podcasts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10D7WBdNS0

Al Aqsa Flood and its consequences are shaking Israeli society from within. While Netanyahu's government continues a brutal campaign of collective punishment against Gaza, some Israelis are questioning why their government is more committed to massacring Palestinians than effectively securing the swift release of hostages. As dissent spreads, the government is turning to fascist methods to repress those who speak out, effectively eliminating freedom of speech and arresting those who defy them. Israeli photojournalist Oren Ziv joins The Marc Steiner Show for a special discussion co-hosted with Israeli filmmaker Lia Tarachansky.

TRANSCRIPT:
https://therealnews.com/the-fear-is-everywhere-israels-internal-crackdown

What really happened in Israel on Oct. 7? w/Max Blumenthal | The Chris Hedges Report
Premiered 109 minutes ago The Chris Hedges Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0gECjlpXF8

For all the sensationalism surrounding the events of Oct. 7, when Hamas broke through the Gaza fence and seized territory in the Gaza Envelope as part of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood, there is still much that we do not know. The official Israeli death toll from the attack is estimated at 1,200 civilians (sic), revised from an initial estimate of 1,400. Among this figure are several hundred civilians, which Israel says were killed by Hamas militants. Other testimony from survivors of Oct. 7 suggests an alternative explanation—that in its fervor to defeat Hamas, Israeli commanders may have willingly targeted and sacrificed Israeli soldiers and civilians in the crossfire. Max Blumenthal of The Grayzone joins The Chris Hedges Report for an in-depth look.

TRANSCRIPT:
https://therealnews.com/did-israels-military-kill-its-own-civilians-on-oct-7

margd asked at one point about the roots of Iranian-Israeli enmity. This latest from Ker-Lindsay may begin to answer that.

HEZBOLLAH | Israel’s New Front?
Prof James Ker-Lindsay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9tMDZZ1rZs

Yes, he's writing in Al-Mayadeen (and, of course, subject to their editorial conventions), but to hear this analysis coming from an old-school MI6 Arabist like Crooke, with his degree of experience dealing directly with all sides, is vertigo-inducing.

https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/-israel-s---nakba-doctrine
(cf. Nov. 10 https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/levelling-gaza-is-no--end-game--... )

Sen. Mark Warner-Va. saying Biden could lose support in key states over Israel/Palestine. He warns Israel that the war they're in is about hearts and minds and they should be careful. Netanyahu does not give a rats ass about Biden losing key states or United States perceptions on hearts and minds. I'm sure he loves Biden's support on this but he'd also rather have someone like Trump in the White House. If Likud members lived in the United States they'd be all about keeping immigrants out.....they're hard right wingers. They see pretty much everything in a hard right wing way. Warner and democrats are making a huge mistake if they think Netanyahu and his Likud party will ever have their backs.

>8 lriley: Many/most will disagree, but I like to think that Biden is willing to lose support if it means doing the right thing--support Israel's right to defend itself, do what he can to protect innocents, use this crisis to bring about two states living in peace with one another. In doing so, he's put his legacy in the hands of ...Netanyahu... and decisions made long ago. Also, lots to lose for Americans in the 2024 election, who may now be in the hands of ...Netanyahu...

>9 margd: support Israel's right to defend itself

I think that phrase has become a bit of a red herring. There's hardly anybody in the world who doesn't support Israel's right to defend itself. The question is rather whether what Israel is doing at the moment is part of legitimate self defence or whether it is a war crime. Most people tend towards the latter view.

>9 margd: What the Israel govt. has IMO is an internal state issue which it has brought upon itself with its own racist policies against part of its own population. A policy it refuses to adjust at all to bring about negotiating for peace with that part of the population. It's clear that those in Likud running the government do not want Palestinians of any kind living in the territory of Israel including the West Bank and Gaza which so many would rather call Judea and Samaria instead and open it up to more settler expansion. It's clearly an issue of displacing and exiling millions of Palestinians. This is more Likud claiming the right to defend itself IMO than the state of Israel necessarily.

Watching the botch job the other day of the IDF finding weapons hidden in bags behind the MRI machines in Al-Shifa hospital. Apparently the people behind that video atrocity didn't realize that the magnets in the MRI machines would cause those weapons to fire were they really hidden behind those machines when those machines were in operation. Of all the places in a hospital to hide weapons that's pretty much the last place you'd want to. Don't think Hamas go into battle wearing uniforms either. That would just make them easier targets. Anyway that video apparently has disappeared already into the ether.

>12 lriley: Never heard of that before, but apparently MRI machines CAN cause (loaded) weapons to fire!
( https://healthimaging.com/topics/medical-imaging/magnetic-resonance-imaging-mri/... ) Huh.

>13 margd: Yeah that guy died. He didn't tell anyone and concealed the weapon in his waistband. The machine yanked it out of his waistband and triggered it and he was shot. It reminded me of my trip to get an MRI this year. Did not want any metal going in with me.

This article from Salon is very good:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/decades-u-war-crimes-led-110001737.html

keeping in mind the billions upon billions that go into our military industrial complex year after year and the carte blanche given to arms manufacturers to send weapons all over the world (not just that they sell here). It's like a zillion $ industry from year to year. We're a war happy country and we proactively export our war happiness. IMO our belligerent ideas about religion and capitalism are part of this too.

WHO in occupied Palestinian territory @WHOoPt | Last edited 6:09 PM · Nov 18, 2023:
WHO leads very high-risk joint humanitarian mission to Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza

18 November 2023 - Earlier today, a joint UN humanitarian assessment team, led by WHO accessed Al-Shifa Hospital in northern Gaza to assess the situation on the ground and conduct a rapid situational analysis, assess medical priorities, and establish logistics options for further missions. The team included public health experts, logistics officers, and security staff from OCHA, UNDSS, UNMAS/UNOPS, UNRWA and WHO.

The mission was deconflicted with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to ensure safe passage along the agreed route. However, this was a high-risk operation in an active conflict zone, with heavy fighting ongoing in close proximity to the hospital.

Earlier in the day, the IDF had issued evacuation orders to the remaining 2,500 internally displaced people who had been seeking refuge on the hospital grounds. They, along with a number of mobile patients and hospital staff, had already vacated the facility by the time of the team's arrival.

Due to time limits associated with the security situation, the team was able to spend only one hour inside the hospital, which they described as a “death zone,” and the situation as “desperate.” Signs of shelling and gunfire were evident. The team saw a mass grave at the entrance of the hospital and were told more than 80 people were buried there.

Lack of clean water, fuel, medicines, food and other essential aid over the last six weeks have caused Al-Shifa Hospital—once the largest, most advanced, and best equipped referral hospital in Gaza—to essentially stop functioning as a medical facility. The team observed that due to the security situation, it has been impossible for the staff to carry out effective of waste management in the hospital. Corridors and the hospital grounds were filled with medical and solid waste, increasing the risk of infection. Patients and health staff with whom they spoke were terrified for their safety and health, and pleaded for evacuation. Al-Shifa Hospital can no longer admit patients, with the injured and sick now being directed to the seriously overwhelmed and barely functioning Indonesian Hospital.

There are 25 health workers and 291 patients remaining in Al-Shifa, with several patient deaths having occurred over the previous 2 to 3 days due to the shutting down of medical services. Patients include 32 babies in extremely critical condition, two people in intensive care without ventilation, and 22 dialysis patients whose access to life-saving treatment has been severely compromised. The vast majority of patients are victims of war trauma, including many with complex fractures and amputations, head injuries, burns, chest and abdominal trauma, and 29 patients with serious spinal injuries who are unable to move without medical assistance. Many trauma patients have severely infected wounds due to lack of infection control measures in the hospital and unavailability of antibiotics.

Given the current state of the hospital, which is no longer operational or admitting new patients, the team was requested to evacuate health workers and patients to other facilities. WHO and partners are urgently developing plans for the immediate evacuation of the remaining patients, staff and their families. Over the next 24–72 hours, pending guarantees of safe passage by parties to the conflict, additional missions are being arranged to urgently transport patients from Al-Shifa to Nasser Medical Complex and European Gaza Hospital in the south of Gaza. However, these hospitals are already working beyond capacity, and new referrals from Al-Shifa Hospital will further strain overburdened health staff and resources.

WHO is deeply concerned about the safety and health needs of patients, health workers and internally displaced people sheltering at the few remaining partially functional hospitals in the north, which are facing risk of closure due lack of fuel, water, medical supplies, food, and the intense hostilities. Immediate efforts must be made to restore the functionality of Al-Shifa and all other hospitals to provide urgently needed health services in Gaza.

WHO reiterates its plea for collective efforts to bring an end to the hostilities and humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza. We call for an immediate ceasefire, the sustained flow of humanitarian assistance at scale, unhindered humanitarian access to all of those in need, the unconditional release of all hostages, and the cessation of attacks on health care and other vital infrastructure. The extreme suffering of the people of Gaza demands that we respond immediately and concretely with humanity and compassion.
Photo ( https://twitter.com/WHOoPt/status/1726014852076904450/photo/1 )
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Grant Smith Ellis @GrantSmithEllis | 4:21 AM · Nov 18, 2023

Just now;
Live on @AJEnglish Saturday, a doctor who left #AlShifaHospital said many people are still trapped.

At 9AM #Gaza time (2AM ET), the IDF demanded al-Shifa doctors leave by 10AM.

However, some have stayed behind as the UN cannot arrive to remove amputees until 11AM.
Grant Smith Ellis
@GrantSmithEllis
·
20h
Update;

In a follow-up statement, a doctor who was forced to evacuate #AlShifaHospital in #Gaza on Saturday morning confirmed that a 4th premature baby died today and was buried in a mass grave.

The doctor also reports #Israel did not allow the remaining NICU babies to leave.
Grant Smith Ellis
@GrantSmithEllis
·
20h
On Saturday after 10:45AM in #Gaza (3:45AM ET), Dr. Adnan Al Barsh, Director of Orthopedics at #AlShifaHospital, confirmed that medical personnel were forced to leave the facility by #Israel's army at gun-point earlier today.

150 people (including babies) are still trapped.
Grant Smith Ellis
@GrantSmithEllis
·
20h
One of the last reporters in #Gaza, @YoumnaElSayed17
, delivered a report on Saturday morning about the current evacuation of #AlShifaHospital.

Youmna confirms that doctors were forced to leave patients behind at gunpoint and that #Israel banned ambulances on the 2+ mile journey.
Grant Smith Ellis
@GrantSmithEllis
"I'm telling you, we were forced to leave at gunpoint."

Dr. Mohammed Zaqout, Director General of #Gaza's hospitals, denied IDF claims that medical staff and patients "requested" an evacuation from #AlShifaHospital.

The doctor begged @PalestineRCS and ICRC to intervene.

3:34 Al Jazeera ( https://twitter.com/GrantSmithEllis/status/1725806438399041904 )

DW News @dwnews | 11:45 PM · Nov 18, 2023

LIVE UPDATES: Israel, the US and Hamas are close to a deal that could see dozens of women and children held hostage by the Islamist militant group in Gaza freed in exchange for a five-day pause in fighting, the Washington Post has reported.

https://trib.al/Fs7dmQL

Barak Ravid @BarakRavid | 3:38 PM · Nov 18, 2023
Political reporter for Axios covering foreign policy & the 2024 election. Washington correspondent for Walla. Author of Trump's Peace.

🚨BREAKING: Biden says the U.S. is prepared to impose sanctions {visa bans?} on Israeli settlers who are involved in attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.
🚨Why it matters: This is a big deal. It's the 1st time the U.S. is publicly considering individual sanctions against settlers {many are Americans?}

Text https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1725976743234683347/photo/1
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Biden writes two different letters on :Gaza war, reflecting his US audience
Messages to pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel Americans are not contradictory but it is an uncommon White House practice.
Al Jazeera | 18 Nov 2023

...While one letter showcased Biden’s support for Israel against Palestinian group Hamas’s “terrorism”, the other spoke about the US administration’s efforts to protect civilians in the Gaza Strip....

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/depending-on-his-us-audience-biden-wri...
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Ariel Koren @ariel_koko | 9:29 PM · Nov 18, 20
Thousands are occupying California Democratic Convention in Sacramento, both floors of the building completely shut down. CEASEFIRE NOW @POTUS
0:06 ( https://twitter.com/ariel_koko/status/1726065103580401689 )

Pope Francis to meet with families of Israeli hostages and Palestinians with relatives in Gaza (ACI Africa)

Pope Francis will meet with the families of Israelis being held hostage by Hamas at his next Wednesday general audience, and he will also meet separately with a group of Palestinians with relatives suffering in Gaza... “With these meetings, which are exclusively humanitarian in nature, Pope Francis wants to show his spiritual closeness to the suffering of each person”... Pope Francis has frequently prayed for peace in the Holy Land in his public audiences since the start of the Israel-Hamas war last month. He has also repeatedly called for the hostages being held by Hamas to be freed and for the protection and humanitarian support of civilians in Gaza. In his Angelus address on Nov. 12, he said: “I am close to all those who are suffering, Palestinians and Israelis. I embrace them in this dark moment. And I pray for them a lot.” “In Gaza, let the wounded be rescued immediately, let civilians be protected, let far more humanitarian aid be allowed to reach that stricken population. May the hostages be freed, including the elderly and children,” Pope Francis said. “Every human being, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, of any people or religion, every human being is sacred, is precious in the eyes of God, and has the right to live in peace”...

Samuel Ramani (Oxford U) @SamRamani2 | 8:13 AM · Nov 19, 2023:

BREAKING: China will host foreign ministers from Arab and Islamic countries to de-escalate the Gaza War

China has not invited Iranian diplomats to its Gaza War talks
But there are some interesting trends
The US has urged China to serve as a moderating influence over Tehran
Iran says it is willing to work with China on de-escalating the Gaza War and China bought more Iranian oil

China's approach to Iran in the Gaza War is quite similar to Russia's
But China doesn't have the depth of Russia's diplomatic relationships with Iran-aligned militia groups, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, the PMU in Iraq and Houthis in Yemen

The Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Indonesia as well as the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation) will be represented

China was initially cautious about engaging in diplomacy on the Gaza War but this is noteworthy for its Global Security Initiative
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FMs (Foreign Ministers) From Palestinian Authority, Muslim Nations To Visit China On Monday: Foreign Ministry
AFP - Agence France Presse | November 19, 2023

..."During the visit, China will have in-depth communication and coordination with the joint delegation of foreign ministers of Arab and Islamic countries to promote a de-escalation of the current Palestinian-Israeli conflict, protecting civilians, and justly resolving the Palestinian issue," Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Mao Ning said in a statement.

...Following the outbreak of war last month, Chinese officials including Foreign Minister Wang Yi have called for an immediate ceasefire and a "cooling down" of the situation.

https://www.barrons.com/news/fms-from-palestinian-authority-muslim-nations-to-vi...
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Arab-Islamic ministerial committee to kick off Gaza war talks in China: Saudi FM
Al Arabiya English | 19 November, 2023

A ministerial committee tasked by the Arab-Islamic summit to formulate an action plan to stop the war on Gaza will kick off its work from China, Saudi Arabia’s Foreign Minister Prince Faisal bin Farhan announced.

Ministers from Arab and Muslim countries are expected to start their flurry of political activity from China on Monday (20 Nov 2023)...

“The first stop will be in China and will then move to a number of capitals to deliver the clear message that there must be a ceasefire immediately as well as aid and humanitarian needs must be immediately delivered to Gaza,” Prince Faisal said after meeting with European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell on the sidelines of a conference in Bahrain. “We must work to end this crisis and end this war on Gaza as soon as possible” ...

...China will discuss with these foreign ministers ways to promote the cooling of the current Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the protection of civilians and a just settlement of the Palestinian issue.

The officials visiting are from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Indonesia, Palestine and the Organization of Islamic Cooperation...assigned to conduct talks over the war in Gaza by the Arab-Islamic Summit that was hosted by Saudi Arabia on November 11...

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/11/19/Arab-Islamic-ministeri...

>20 margd: Signs of an instinct for self-preservation seem to be cropping up everywhere all of a sudden (except in the Israeli cabinet).
Perhaps the Chinese will save us from ourselves after all? I suppose that's better than the alternative.

>21 davidgn: China's 12 or 13 points for Ukraine peace sounded pretty reasonable as a whole. Fingers crossed that they can serve as honest broker in the Middle East, where they have less involvement... Same problem in both places, though, that one or both parties don't want to stop.

BDS movement @BDSmovement | 11:59 AM · Nov 19, 2023:
Official account of the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC). We're the Palestinian leadership of the global Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions (BDS) movement

Major General Giora Eiland, former head of the Israeli National Security Council, writes that Israel should encourage, not shy away from, the spread of epidemics and humanitarian disasters among the 2.3M Palestinians in occupied Gaza to reach victory faster. #GenocideEnabler

Quote
Tali @TalulaSha | 10:52 AM · Nov 19, 2023:
Anarchist in Palestine. Ask me about Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions of Israel.

Full translation of Giora Eiland's genocidal column in Yediot Ahronot.
I expect all relevant parties to start issuing arrest warrants and writing up prosecution files....

Text p1 English ( https://twitter.com/TalulaSha/status/1726267178201362438/photo/1 )
Text p2 English ( https://twitter.com/TalulaSha/status/1726267178201362438/photo/2
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Quds News Network @QudsNen | 9:04 AM · Nov 19, 2023:
From #Palestine 🇵🇸 to the world.

Israeli General Giora Eiland calls for tough measures, stating, "The international community warns of a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza and of severe epidemics.

We must not shy away from it. Severe epidemics in the south of the Strip will hasten victory."
Text (Hebrew?) ( https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1726239911013982326/photo/1 )

Hen Mazzig @HenMazzig | 5:28 PM · Nov 19, 2023:
Israeli. Author: The Wrong Kind of Jew. Son of Amazigh+Iraqi Jewish refugees. Founder: @TLVinstitute
Seen: @latimes NBC newsweek BBC & more

Every possible route Hamas terrorists could have taken the hostages into Gaza would have passed through at least 5 other hospitals before reaching Shifa Hospital.

They didn't take them there for "medical treatment"; they brought them specifically to Shifa because it's their headquarters.

Map ( https://twitter.com/HenMazzig/status/1726366860164165733/photo/1 )

>25 margd: Distinctly unconvincing with likely false premises. When and where were the hostages in question injured (by Israeli bombing?)
Pathetic attempt to put a fig leaf on war crimes.

ETA: Oh, this was supposedly on the 7th? I get the impression that as Gaza hospitals go, Al-Shifa would be the place with the closest thing to a decent trauma center. Not all hospitals are equal. So, there's that.

Josh Kraushaar @JoshKraushaar | 9:07 PM · Nov 19, 2023:
Editor in chief, @j_insider . @foxnewsradio political analyst. Political reporting & analysis, without fear or favor.

NBC poll:
Hamas: 1/81 fav/unfav
Palestine; 20/38 unfav
Israel: 47/24 fav/unfav
Social media isn’t reality. Also underscores how much of an outlier college campuses are these days.

Quote
Armand Domalewski @ArmandDoma · 8h
data, development...

Hamas has the lowest approval rating I’ve ever seen in American politics. 1%!
Table, fav/unfav countries, politicos ( https://twitter.com/ArmandDoma/status/1726370025098137671/photo/1 )

>27 margd: No fav/unfav on ceasefire? Could also poll Netanyahu.

>29 lriley: Yes.
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DW News @dwnews | 1:30 PM · Nov 20, 2023:
Houthi rebels in Yemen have escalated their attacks against Israel. According to a spokesperson of the Iran-backed militia, they hijacked the "Galaxy Leader" cargo ship in the southern Red Sea yesterday.
Galaxy Leader cargo ship {+ 25 crew}

https://www.dw.com/en/israel-gaza-yemens-houthis-turn-red-sea-into-crucial-front...

>27 margd: It doesn't exactly support me to hear that nobody supports Hamas, or that it's a vanishingly rare position. As a Palestinian-American student at Wayne State put it in an interview I saw (to paraphrase), "Carrying a Palestinian flag does not show support for Hamas. Hamas has their own flag. You don't see anybody carrying that."

The Netanyahu doctrine: how Israel’s longest-serving leader reshaped the country in his image (Guardian)

He first became prime minister in 1996, and has been pushing the country further right ever since. Most agree his political days are numbered – but the approach he established will prove very difficult to shift... the relative calm of the last decade-and-a-half was built upon a series of illusions: that the Palestinians and their aspirations for freedom could be hidden behind concrete barriers and ignored; that any remaining resistance could be managed through a combination of technology and overwhelming firepower; that the world, and especially Sunni Arab states, had grown so tired of the Palestinian issue that it could be removed from the global agenda, and consequently, that Israeli governments could do as they pleased and suffer few consequences. The attack on 7 October shattered all these presumptions... Successive Netanyahu governments did not make Israelis safer. Instead, they made them vulnerable to attacks such as the one Hamas carried out. Netanyahu did not chart a path for Israel out of its dependence on the United States. Instead, he left Israel as dependent on its US backer as it was during the only comparable disaster in Israel’s history, the 1973 Yom Kippur war. Netanyahu promised to streamline the state and make government more efficient. Instead, Israel’s bureaucracy has been hollowed out, its social services underfunded and unresponsive. And yet, while Netanyahu’s vision for Israel has been utterly discredited, there is no clear successor poised to break with it. The iron tracks that Netanyahu laid may prove too hard to shift. The current crisis may very well mark the end of Netanyahu’s public career. But Israel may also be trapped in conditions of his making long after he is gone...

>31 davidgn: Yeah, some people need to have it spelled out: pro-Palestine is not pro-Hamas. Some are trying to squelch pro-Palestinian's free speech by labeling them antisemitic or pro-Hamas?

>33 margd: You bet.

I think being both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel is where you'd want to get to. If you put a random Jewish Israeli next to a random Muslim Palestinian (or change about religions all you want or even make them secular) I wouldn't want to choose between them and say this one is better than that one. Differences in religion, background or culture shouldn't make one better than the other. Equality is a hard place to get to even on wealth, race, gender, gender orientation or class let alone religious beliefs.

jon oliver was mentioned above, and finally got around to watching it. Definitely targets on >33 margd:,>34 davidgn: and >35 lriley:. he says at the end: if we do not have empathy, we are lost. well worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8

Prof. John J. Mearsheimer: Will Russia and China Intervene in Gaza?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WbC-AR-QG0

Judge Napolitano - Judging Freedom
Streamed live 75 minutes ago #Israel #Gaza #ceasefire

The current consensus suggests that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) are making significant strides against Hamas in Gaza, inching closer to achieving their objectives.

Critics point out that the IDF has yet to fully dismantle Hamas's intricate tunnel network, a key infrastructure that enables the militant group to move covertly and stage attacks. Furthermore, the IDF's miscalculation regarding the contents beneath the al Shira hospital suggests that the operational intelligence may not be as accurate as needed for a successful campaign.

Join me with Professor Mearsheimer as we discuss the facts and future of the ongoing war in Gaza.

On the tunnels---the IDF is in Gaza and we've been hearing about these tunnels since early October and it's the IDF's job to go into these tunnels and root Hamas out. It's a lot easier to bomb and kill civilians but this is the real job not the bombing and killing/maiming of innocents and it's a shit job. It's like the police going into a school building to get a shooter(s). You might lose a few doing it but it's what they're paid for as well as providing help to innocents. I don't blame soldiers for not wanting to do this part (because your life and loved ones are pretty much all you really have) but they're not really soldiers if they don't or won't.

Hey, Joe, are we singing along? Joe?
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1726343210400960967

ETA:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/20/israeli-children-singing-annihilate-gaza/

Couldn't even let Palestinians have their own protest chant...

US Jews attempt to trademark 'From the river to the sea' Palestinian chant
This slogan, emerging from the Palestinian nationalist movement in the 1960s, has been used to advocate for various political visions.
ZVIKA KLEIN, MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN | NOVEMBER 23, 2023

..."It could backfire, and eventually all kinds of people we don't want to wear hats and shirts with this slogan will buy the goods and use them, and it will spread around the world," said Lihi Katzenelson, a partner at Arnon, Tadmor-Levy Law Firm, who specializes in trademarks and intellectual property.

Joel Ackerman and Oron Rosenkrantz filed trademark applications for the phrase that refers to the geographic area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, encompassing Israel and the Palestinian territories.

The slogan became popular when the Palestinian nationalist movement first used it in the 1960s. It has since been used to express Palestinian aspirations of a Palestinian state that covers all of this territory and, therefore, wipes Israel off the map.

Ackerman, representing River to the Sea LLC, seeks to trademark the entire chant: "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," Rosenkrantz of From The River To The Sea Shop LLC has applied only for "from the river to the sea."

Katzenelson explained that if the men receive the trademark, they can enforce their rights against third parties that try to use it. However, she clarified that the applications filed a week ago apply only to hats and shirts in these cases. Moreover, receiving the trademark could take between nine months and a year.

To receive a trademark in America, the owner must prove use – like in Israel, which could also prove a challenge. Finally, if the brand would go through, it would only apply in America, meaning that in other areas, such as Europe, where the slogan has become popularized, it would still be able to be used...

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-774723

_________________________________________

Looks like Joel Ackerman, representing River to the Sea LLC, successfully trademarked the entire chant: "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free":
https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1727707064951099895/photo/1

oh for heavens sakes

>41 cindydavid4: I'm sorry. Just more than I can take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5SMzQzdnZw
Israeli History Teacher Arrested & Jailed for Facebook Posts Opposing Killing of Palestinians
Democracy Now!

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/22/meir_baruchin

>40 margd: contd.

Israel banned use of Palestinian flag in occupied territories after 1967 war?
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1727899846474969554/photo/1
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1727899633957925086/photo/2

Most people know Stieg Larsson for his series of crime novels starting with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo but he was really a journalist turned crime writer and before he died of a heart attack in his 50's one of the main obsessions of his life or at least according to Jan Stocklassa who wrote The Man who played with fire: The man who played with fire: Stieg Larsson's lost files and the hunt for an assassin was finding out who assassinated (and why?) the Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme in February of 1986 and Larsson according to Stocklassa had two storage lockers crammed full of material on the assassination. If I remember Stocklassa was granted the opportunity to look through all this material and amongst other things he found that Larsson was trying to make some sense of was the collusion between the Thatcher and Reagan governments, Israel, Swedish right wingers (some living in Sweden, some in South Africa and some between) in the apartheid South African regime in trading oil for weapons working around what turned into in the United States into the Iran contra scandal.

So I found this from the New Republic kind of interesting reading today:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-arms-world-autocrats-weapons-110000184.html

Back to Stocklassa's book there was fear amongst some world leaders in 1986 that Palme a democratic socialist who had resisted alliances with all of Russia, the U.K. and the U.S.A. had found out much of what was going on....was making too much noise about it and was going to blow the lid off of it before very long. He was murdered on a Stockholm street after leaving a movie theater with his wife who was also shot and almost died.

Mavi Marmara Redux. This could explode in terrible ways.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/1000-boats-said-set-to-leave-turkey-for-gaza-water...
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/gaza-freedom-flotilla-to-sail-again/

oh just what the world needs right now. I dont remember anything about the Mavi Marmara at all, think I was too focused on Iraq at the times. This just does not bode well

>47 cindydavid4: This looks promising. Haven't specifically seen it, but Journeyman does good work. Might rent it this weekend.
https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Lost-at-Sea/dp/B07YNWRMTN

Write-up:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/features/remembering-mavi-marmara-we-really-believ...

Taken: Palestinian freedom, land, flag, protest chant, public joy...

Palestinian release celebrations forbidden (2:47)
CNN | 26 Nov 2023
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/24/palestinian-release-celebrations-for...

40% of Israel's foodstuffs come from farms near Gaza border?
Foreign labor has fled after Hamas killing, abduction of foreign workers as well as Israelis.
Some Israeli volunteers helping, but not enough. Not a longterm solution.

(3:50) https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/23/israel-farms-hamas-attack-robertson-...

The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten

People have seen too much that will stay with them too long. Trust in the ‘international community’ will never be the same...

Meanwhile, as an example, two articles from two very different news agencies:

World, protesters silent on Sudan massacres: 'no mob outside the White House' (Fox)

Death and destruction in Sudan don't seem to be on the agenda on campus, around country... A minimum of 5.6 million people have been driven from their homes, a further 25 million need aid and some 9,000 have been killed in Sudan since the latest conflict began earlier this year, according to the U.N. The situation gets worse daily, with increasing credible reports of ethnically based attacks and rape of women and children. Yet Sudan is literally the forgotten war...

Sudan aid workers risk ‘kidnap and rape’, experts warn (Al Jazeera)

Aid organisations make urgent call for humanitarian corridors to allow them to do their work safely...

And two more from Al Jazeera highlighting narratives which are generally overlooked in the western media.

Israeli settlers steal Palestinian farmers’ land in occupied West Bank

Farmers in the occupied West Bank face near-daily incursions and violence from Israeli settlers, to the point that they live in fear of having their homes and land stolen, they say...

Israa Jaabis returns home after release from Israeli prison

Watch the moment Palestinian woman Israa Jaabis returns home and embraces her son after eight years imprisoned in Israel. She was released on the second day of a prisoner exchange deal between Israel and Hamas which saw 39 Palestinians come home...

>51 John5918: For the Fox story, who is it blaming for the lack of protests about the Sudan war? The US administration? It would prefer no protests. Palestinians in the US? Really?

And, in any case, what the protests are about is the US unconditional support for one of the sides that are commiting war crimes. The US doesn't support any actors in the Sudan war to nearly the level that it supports Israel

>53 jjwilson61:

Indeed, I do not necessarily support Fox News' take on anything, but the point for me is that the USA was interested enough in Sudan when the Chevron oil company was there in the 1980s, or when Osama bin Laden was there in the 1990s, or when Bush was trying to convince the world that he was not anti-Islam in the early 2000s, ie whenever it suited the USA's perceived self-interest, but neither the US government nor the media take any interest in conflicts and humanitarian disasters (which are often the same thing) when it sees no immediate self-interest.

Likewise the Al Jazeera piece. I watched several western news channels yesterday and there was wall to wall coverage of the touching scenes when detained Israelis were reunited with their families, but barely a mention of the detained Palestinians who were also reunited with their families, some after being held in appalling conditions for years, not just a few weeks.

Netanyahu is Deadly Wrong | Col. Larry Wilkerson
Dialogue works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtJK-Xatzyk
As always, one of our last honest men.
ETA: I hope he's right about the domestic political polling, but holy crap would we be fools to count on that.

>54 John5918: "...neither the US government nor the media take any interest in conflicts and humanitarian disasters (which are often the same thing) when it sees no immediate self-interest..."

Also, from my limited experience, media is more likely to cover a story if the subject reaches out with a story, or if it's readily available.

e.g., IDF suppressed public celebration for return of Palestinians, as opposed to supplying info on plight of Hamas's victims.

e.g., Thailand worked with Iran for Hamas to release Thais, and did not advertise.
----------------------------------------------------
To their credit, some media dig for their stories:

DW News @dwnews | 7:19 PM · Nov 29, 2023:
The mother of a Thai worker who was killed in the October 7 terror attack in Israel says poor farming families like her do not have a choice but to send their children to work abroad.
1:36 ( https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1730018596917518522 )

Released Palestinians allege abuse in Israeli jails (BBC)

Palestinian prisoners released from Israeli jails say that guards carried out abuse and collective punishment in the weeks after the Hamas attacks on Israel on 7 October. They have described being hit with sticks, having muzzled dogs set on them, and their clothes, food and blankets taken away. One female prisoner has said she was threatened with rape, and that guards twice tear-gassed inmates inside the cells. The BBC spoke to six people in total, all of whom said they were beaten before leaving jail. The Palestinian Prisoners Society says some guards are alleged to have urinated on handcuffed prisoners. And that six prisoners have died in Israeli custody in the past seven weeks. Israel says all its prisoners are detained according to the law...

Whatever your view of the Israel-Hamas war, rape is rape. To trivialise it is to diminish ourselves (Guardian)

This week, the UN secretary general, António Guterres, finally called for what he described as “numerous accounts of sexual violence during the abhorrent acts of terror by Hamas” to be “vigorously investigated”...

I was interested in a little BBC story that two of the Israeli hostages in Gaza are in fact Muslim Bedouin Arabs who happen to be citizens of Israel. I had been uncertain whether to think of Hamas as essentially an Islamist group or essentially an Arab nationalist group, but this willingness to act against Arab Muslims, along with their obvious disdain for the security of Gaza's citizens and the integrity of its civil society, suggests that they are neither, but are in fact just local warlords interested in power through terrorism.

>60 MyopicBookworm: I read that one Israeli Arab killed Oct 7 was a paramedic trying to reach the victims.

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

A blueprint reviewed by The {NY} Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

...Officials privately concede that, had the military taken these warnings seriously and redirected significant reinforcements to the south, where Hamas attacked, Israel could have blunted the attacks or possibly even prevented them...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intellig...

>62 margd:

Yes, BBC also reports that much of the three years of training and preparation was actually posted on social media, but was ignored by Israel, assessing they amounted to the "standard" activity of paramilitary groups in the Palestinian territories, rather than being "indicative of a looming large-scale attack".

>60 MyopicBookworm: There is the origin story of Hamas being at least to some degree organized and bankrolled by the Israeli govt. to create a Muslim opposition to the two state solution that the PLO and other global actors wanted but Israeli right wingers did not want. I'm no expert on that but it's a story that's come up again and again in recent weeks from all kinds of different sources.

If you look at Gaza as an open air prison of some 2 million residents about half of which are children under 18 years of age---with food insecurity, with very little potable water to go around, a super condensed population for the area with super high unemployment, where it's almost impossible for the residents within to get out for any reason and where there is no controlling authority within but Hamas and when you think about that last bit....Gaza is part of the territory known as Israel, why are there not at least some legitimate civilian ( like police, let alone military) Israeli authority within this part of Israel? if it's part of Israel. The answer is pretty much the right wing Likud party that controls Israel decided they could lock away this problem they didn't want to resolve, that it then could be ignored and that would be enough and basically those within could all die and they wouldn't have to care less. They weren't interested in sending in food, water or the basic human needs.....just call them all criminals and that would be the end of it. Norman Finkelstein calls the residents of Gaza concentration camp inmates and it's hard to disagree with that. To me Hamas is like what happens to a prison when there are no guards inside. The biggest, nastiest gang inside takes over and runs the show. This is not the fault of Gazans. This is a problem created by the Israeli govt. which refuses to see Palestinians as equals.

Civil War And More Slaughter: Israel's Dark Future | Knesset Member Dr. Ofer Cassif
Neutrality Studies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzX_sYAoNDM

Dec 1, 2023
Ofer Cassif is an Israeli Member of Parliament who has been fighting for peace and reconciliation with the Palestinians and their right to return to their homeland. He predicts that Israel is dooming itself not only by committing genocide against the Palestinians and shocking the entire non-western World, but by arming its own citizens to the teeth. Civil war is around the corner as society is growing ever more extremist and its democratic institutions are being dismantled. Unless there is rapid change, Isreal will self-destruct from the inside.

A humane voice I'm sorry I haven't heard before.

In its war against Hamas, Israel faces a tragic choice between two different routes to disaster

The Israelis’ goal of destroying the enemy risks slipping further out of reach the more they pursue it... there are no good options, only two different routes to disaster. In fighting Hamas, Israel faces just such a predicament – and yet there are too many, among both those who defend Israel and those who denounce it, who refuse to see that. Start with those who believe that the massacre by Hamas of more than 1,200 Israelis on 7 October gives Israel the moral licence to respond however it sees fit, subject to almost no limitations. In this view, the horror of the October attacks, the sadism and cruelty of the killing, torture and rape, crossed every moral red line and so Israel can do whatever it takes to defeat those to blame. Not as revenge, but as prevention – to ensure that Hamas cannot make good on its vow to stage another 7 October, and another and another, until Israel is eradicated. This view can bridle at any attempt at restraint... But even on its own logic, that position can quickly run into moral quicksand. Even if you believe that almost any death toll in Gaza would be a morally acceptable price to pay for the absolute defeat of Hamas, you would struggle to defend the current Israeli strategy – because few believe it will, in fact, result in the absolute defeat of Hamas... The laziest form of politics is practised by those who pretend complex problems are easy or can be solved cost-free...

Activist on trial for damaging UK sites of Israeli arms maker says he was justified

A co-founder of Palestine Action on trial with others for damaging an Israeli arms manufacturer’s UK sites has said they were justified because they were trying to stop people being bombed. Richard Barnard, 51, and seven other defendants are accused of charges relating to actions against Elbit Systems Limited, which he said Palestine Action aims to “shut down”. On Friday, the first day of the defence case, Barnard, giving evidence, said he was inspired to take action by his Catholic faith, stories he heard while working with refugees in Dover and the fact that a subsidiary of Elbit – Instro Precision – had an arms factory near where he lived in Kent. “The idea was – and the idea still is – to end the British complicity in the Israeli apartheid regime,” he told the jury. “I am trying to prevent war crimes … I am trying to stop bombings and trying to stop drones {in Palestine}”...

Both from the Guardian, followed by two from BBC:

Protester sets themself on fire outside Israel consulate in Atlanta, Georgia

A protester is in a critical condition after lighting themself on fire at the Israeli consulate in the US state of Georgia in what police called an "extreme act of political protest". Police said the demonstrator used petrol, and a Palestinian flag was found at the scene, outside the mission in Atlanta. The person's gender and age remain unclear. A security guard who attempted to intervene was also injured...

US sets clearer red lines for Israel as ceasefire ends

In the end it was a diplomatic achievement that the ceasefire lasted as long as it did. Now, after a seven-day pause, Israel and Hamas are facing their greatest military and political challenges. For Hamas, it is the fight to survive. As long as a Hamas gunman can pull a trigger or launch a rocket into Israel it will claim to be undefeated. For all its overwhelming military power, Israel's task is more complicated... In the first hours after the Israeli military went back on the offensive, the government recommitted itself to its war aims in a WhatsApp post: "Releasing the hostages, eliminating Hamas and ensuring that Gaza never again constitutes a threat to the residents of Israel." How it does that and what happens next are now the number one preoccupations of Mr Netanyahu, his political allies and enemies in Israel and Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state who has made four trips to Israel and the region since the war started... Mr Blinken repeated his insistence "that Israel act in accordance with international humanitarian law and the laws of war, even when confronting a terrorist group that respects neither". Then Mr Blinken made his starkest public statement yet about how Israel should fight the war. It is worth quoting at length, because it is a checklist of what the US expects from its closest ally. Mr Blinken said that it meant "taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire". "It means avoiding further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza. It means avoiding damage to life-critical infrastructure, like hospitals, like power stations, like water facilities." "And it means giving civilians who've been displaced to southern Gaza the choice to return to the north as soon as conditions permit. There must be no enduring internal displacement." At the beginning of the war Joe Biden, the US president, came here. While trying to wrap Israel in a warm and powerful embrace he also warned his allies not to be blinded by rage as they sought justice... Mr Blinken's remarks suggest Joe Biden believes that Mr Netanyahu, with whom he has had a difficult relationship, did not listen...

US sends ‘bunker buster’ bombs to Israel for war on Gaza, {WSJ} report says
2 Dec 2023

Apart from ground-penetrating munitions, US has also given Israel several other types of bombs and artillery shells.

“These are major bombs that the US has used in the past in its wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, but mainly in open areas … Now Israel is using these bombs in a very different environment in Gaza, on a densely populated civilian population,” {Al Jazeera’s Heidi Zhou-Castro} said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/us-gives-bunker-buster-bombs-to-israel-...

Young, bright, Palestinian: the three friends shot in Vermont (Guardian)

Tahseen Ali Ahmad, Kinnan Abdalhamid and Hisham Awartani, all 20, are childhood friends and ‘incredibly tight’ – especially now... The three friends, all now 20 years old, were on their way to Thanksgiving dinner at Awartani’s grandmother’s house in Burlington, Vermont, when a white man fired at them with a handgun. One of the bullets struck Awartani’s spine, and he may not walk again. Jason J Eaton, 48, was arrested on Sunday afternoon and charged with attempted murder. He has pleaded not guilty. Police are investigating whether to charge Eaton with a hate crime; Burlington police say the three men had been speaking Arabic, and two had been wearing keffiyehs. The shooting has fuelled anxiety about the rise in violence against Muslim and Arab people in the US, which has also seen an increase in antisemitic incidents...

Hope Israel doesn't halt humanitarian assistance (= witnesses).

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (WHO) @DrTedros | 11:26 PM · Dec 2, 2023:

The reports of ongoing hostilities and heavy bombardment in #Gaza are petrifying.
Yesterday our team visited Nassar Medical Hospital in the south. It was packed with 1,000 patients — 3 times over its capacity. Countless people were seeking shelter, filling every corner of the facility.
Patients were receiving care on the floor, screaming in pain.
These conditions are beyond inadequate - unimaginable for the provision of health care.
I cannot find words strong enough to express our concern over what we’re witnessing.
Ceasefire. NOW.

DW News @dwnews | 10:23 PM · Dec 2, 2023:

South Africa is home to Africa's largest Jewish community. The ongoing violence in the Middle East has left its mark, with Jewish citizens now more cautious when they leave their homes.

Photo: Torn hostage posters and Israel flags after a demonstration in Cape Town
https://www.dw.com/en/south-africas-anti-israel-stance-alarms-countrys-jews/a-67...

What the Scale of Displacement in Gaza Looks Like
Zach Levitt and Amy Schoenfeld Walker | Dec. 2, 2023

Up to 1.8 million Gazans — around 80 percent of the {2.2 million} population — have been forced to leave their homes since Israel began its bombardment in response to Hamas’s attack on Oct. 7. That number is expected to rise after Israel issued a new evacuation order on Saturday for areas in the south.

{See graph % UN shelters, govt shelters, other shelters, host families and outside shelters...}

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/02/world/middleeast/gaza-map-displac...
________________________________________

Harris Says U.S. Strongly Opposes ‘Forced Relocation of Palestinians From Gaza’
Michael D. Shear | Dec. 2, 2023

...“The vice president reiterated that under no circumstances will the United States permit the forced relocation of Palestinians from Gaza or the West Bank,” the statement from the White House said.

She also rejected an idea suggested recently by some Israeli officials that the borders of Gaza could shrink after the war is over to accommodate a security “buffer zone” between the interior of Gaza and Israel. The statement said the United States would not permit “the redrawing of the borders of Gaza.”

Ms. Harris delivered the stern comments after a daylong diplomatic blitz with the leaders of four Arab countries in Dubai... Mr. el-Sisi, King Abdullah of Jordan and President Mohammed bin Zayed of the United Arab Emirates. She also spoke in a lengthy call with Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, the emir of Qatar.

...“When this conflict ends, Hamas cannot control Gaza and Israel must be secure,” she said. “Palestinians need a hopeful political horizon, economic opportunity and freedom. And the region more broadly must be integrated and prosperous. And we must work toward that.”

...She said other countries would have to help with “reconstruction, security and governance,” but spoke only in generalities about what Jordan, Egypt, the Emirates or Qatar might do to rebuild Gaza or help ensure security and stability.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/world/middleeast/kamala-harris-israel-gaza.ht...
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Swing-state Muslim leaders launch campaign to ‘abandon’ Biden in 2024
Myah Ward | 12/02/2023

The bubbling anger among Arab and Muslim Americans over the president’s handling of the Israel-Hamas conflict could threaten his chances of reelection...

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/02/swing-state-muslim-leaders-biden-001297...
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Trump promises to immediately restore and expand "Trump travel ban" {of Muslims}:
0:03 https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1731079706676478168

>70 margd: FWIW most South Africans see similarity between the apartheid regime they had to deal with and the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli state. There were many White South Africans that supported an end to apartheid as there are many Israeli Jews who support equality between Jews and Muslims/Christians. The problem is who had the power then in South Africa and who has it now in Israel. As well in the the Republic of Ireland and the nationalist community in Northern Ireland there's a lot of support for Palestinian rights. It's funny in a way wherever Britain has had a colonial regime a way they maintained power was to play one community off against another. One side would get greater power--White South Africans, loyalist Ulsterman, the Jews in Israel/Palestine and the other side would get nothing but second class citizenship if that....it worked that way even when the Brits were moving out as a kind of way for them to keep their finger in the pie.

>72 lriley:

Very true. It is easy to forget what a huge impact colonialism had on today's world, and how we are still reaping the fruits of that violent and dysfunctional system.

>73 John5918: Memory plays a part into further generations. Here in the United States sometimes we have difficulty or bias remembering our own past let alone somewhere else and whether or not it's hard to understand reactions elsewhere there's always reasons nonetheless. They'll pop up if you look hard enough. Living under the British thumb wherever was no joke. The United States it's not so much a colonialist thing in building our own Empire but we have done occupations numbers of time before WWII but particularly afterwards.....a lot in Asia. We've been picking sides all over the world to expand our influence and with our massive arsenal of weapons it's made a huge difference post WWII. This is where the late Mr. Kissinger--hero of all the middle of the roader establishment democrats and republicans and almost every right winger made his mark. People who think somehow someway we are better than others.....the best country ever....that we're chosen. When I see all these people praising Henry I cringe and right wing Israelis think they're chosen too. American influence seems to be waning these days but........we are a country that has our finger in just about every conflict on one side or the other. Thinking of ourselves as innocents and there's never going to be any blowback well wait for the day.

>74 lriley: the late Mr. Kissinger--hero of all the middle of the roader establishment democrats and republicans and almost every right winger made his mark

The Kissinger years: flawed legacy of the man behind US cold war policy (Guardian)

Henry Kissinger's Cambodia legacy of bombs and chaos (BBC)

>74 lriley: ICYMI, interesting read--at least 1st edition was:

The Savage Wars of Peace: Small Wars and the Rise of American Power
by Max Boot

"...America's "small wars," "imperial war," or, as the Pentagon now terms them, "low-intensity conflicts," have played an essential but little-appreciated role in its growth as a world power. Beginning with Jefferson's expedition against the Barbary pirates, Max Boot tells the exciting stories of our sometimes minor but often bloody landings in Samoa, the Philippines, China, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Mexico, Russia, and elsewhere. Along the way he sketches colorful portraits of little-known military heroes such as Stephen Decatur, "Fighting Fred" Funston, and Smedly Butler."

"This revised and updated edition of Boot's compellingly readable history of the forgotten wars that helped promote America's rise in the lst two centuries includes a wealth of new material, including a chapter on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a new afterword on the lessons of the post-9/11 world."

- Amazon

>76 margd: I'd also add our military grade weapons are not just in the hands of every unhappy 12 year old and/or early and mid teenager they're all over the world everywhere. We are by far the greatest exporter of death and destruction on the planet. It's not just manufacturers of AR-15's who are a problem.

DW News @dwnews | 1:37 AM · Dec 5, 2023:

Lloyd Austin, the US defense chief has warned that Israel could face a 'strategic defeat' if it fails to protect civilians in Gaza.

0:33 ( https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1731925661239882211 )

US imposes visa bans on Israeli settlers responsible for West Bank violence

In a rare punitive move against Israel, the US has announced it will impose travel bans on extremist Jewish settlers implicated in recent attacks on Palestinians in theWest Bank... “We have underscored to the Israeli government the need to do more to hold accountable extremist settlers who have committed violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank,” Blinken said in a statement. “As President Biden has repeatedly said, those attacks are unacceptable”...

Israel’s use of disproportionate force is a long-established tactic – with a clear aim

The strategy goes well beyond defeating an opponent: it seeks to destroy key infrastructure and the economy, with many civilian casualties... How to make sense of the sheer intensity of Israel’s war in Gaza? One understanding is that it is the result of the enduring shock of the 7 October massacre combined with a far-right government that includes extreme elements. Yet this ignores another element: a specific Israeli approach to war known as the Dahiya doctrine. It’s also one reason why the “pause” was never going to last for very long...

Both from the Guardian

>79 John5918: Pretty much everything positive the Biden administration has done here (which is very little) is too little and too late John. I am super skeptical that Palestinians in Gaza aren't going to be ethnically cleansed before this episode is over. One I think just has to look at Gaza City and ask oneself how much it would cost to rebuild that city to be habitable again and who would pay for that to happen. Just a major city hospital would cost billions upon billions and we're talking about rebuilding an entire million population city around that? Most people who lived there a couple months ago effectively have no home to go back to now. The Israeli govt. have more or less done to that city what the Russian did to Mariupol. The Israeli govt. has been murdering innocents by the thousands so I hardly find it believable that they're going to turn around and rebuild this city for the people they've been bombing afterwards. So who is going to rebuild? When Biden or Blinken or Harris say that Israel has to allow those Palestinians to resume their lives within Gaza who're they fooling? It's just words to make themselves look better is what I'm seeing as well as hoping they don't lose too many voters. Meanwhile the Democratic Party here at home are looking for AIPAC funded sock puppets to primary congresspeople who haven't fallen in line with signing off on these further atrocities to October 7. One war crime does not justify another and as the Guardian has it in that article......these war crimes committed by the Israeli state are a lot more than just disproportionate.

And here are some news stories picked up by Al Jazeera.

‘Anti-Zionism is antisemitism,’ US House asserts in ‘dangerous’ resolution

Palestinian rights advocates are denouncing a congressional resolution that equates anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, calling it a “dangerous” measure that aims to curb free speech and distract from the war in Gaza...

No Palestinian is safe anywhere in the world

I knew and taught the three Palestinian students shot in the US. This attack has left me more fearful for my students...

‘Gaza’s entrepreneurs are being killed by Israel’

Entrepreneurial leaders are being killed, leaving a gaping hole in the world of startups and businesses... The entrepreneurs of Gaza, a close-knit group who worked hand in hand to improve new graduates’ prospects, are reeling from the relentless killing of their colleagues by Israel as it bombards the blockaded Gaza Strip... The people in Yousef’s network had been the ones who found technological solutions to Gaza’s problems and, as their institutions grew, had created jobs for graduates with few work opportunities due to a 17-year siege imposed by Israel on Gaza...

Is Israel’s Gaza bombing also a war on the climate?

Many of the world’s leaders are gathered in Dubai for COP28, the annual United Nations summit on climate change. Some 2,400km (1,500 miles) to the West, meanwhile, Israel’s war on Gaza is raging. Sixty days into the war, Israel’s bombs have killed about 16,000 people, including more than 6,600 children. But increasingly, experts are also worried about its effect on the environment and on Gaza’s ability to combat climate change. From polluted water supplies to toxic smoke-filled air from burning buildings and bodies, every aspect of life in Gaza is now filled with some form of pollution. “On the ground, this war has destroyed every aspect of Gaza’s environment”...

That last one should perhaps be read in conjunction with post #121 in the Climate Crisis thread in LT's Sustainability group, noting that the military appears to be exempt from reporting on their carbon footprint, whereas it is in fact a majour source of global fossil fuel use and pollution, particularly in the USA. One wonders what the carbon footprint of the current Israeli military campagn will be.