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We really need a thread for this. I feel awful that I might damage it for someone who hasn't read or comepleted the book yet. A lot of us have read this book. Please share and discuss your thoughts.
It's just as strange for me to stay with my father (it's been four years since I last visited) as it is for Bella to stay with hers. I was ogled over by the huge amount of family members when I visited my father last the same way Bella is at school, just without anyone speaking to me much.
I can be a complete klutz and am good at dropping things and suffering injuries that I accidentally inflict upon myself.
Reading a book with a guy who is at least sometimes sweet to the main character is nice because I have just about given up all hope of ever dating. I just don't think I can work past my issues and not be terrified of guys because of negative male role models I had growing up, which for a while had me thinking the whole lot of that gender were only mean and cruel.
It's not as if I begrudge your generation its fantasies, it's just that now, looking back, I wonder if it's healthy to portray teenage girls falling "in love" with boys based solely on their looks. And then to have that boy just happen to be totally devoted and without flaw, well, that's a little extreme.
I heard men of my generation, or slightly younger, have the same beef about John Cusak in Say Anything.
I'm only about half way through, so maybe it gets better. I WILL finish it.
How can you not be crazy about Edward?
That's exactly what I told Suge when she had me write that - that she would be proving your point! ;)
I agree, it's horrid based soleyly on looks - disguisting, in fact. I never got the idea that Bella liked Edward for merely looks. He and his siblings do stand out to her, but I had thought it was just because of the whole vampire thing. As for Edward dazzling her, I imagined it as a mind thing.
I see your point about that being extreme. That's fiction for you.
Hurrah for you trying to finish it! Thank you! :)
That's something I could never figure out. I think they explained it as wanting to not be in trouble with the human law and to blend in better. Still, I bet they could hide away if they wanted and not go to high school.
I agree with you that it's strange for him to fall for a teenager when he's so very much older. Why not go for another vamp or an older human, right? I think I may have a partial answer for you on this matter, but in case you haven't reached the point where it's discussed, I'll not bring it up just yet.
I think I might reread Twilight soon. I was going to wait till July, but I really want to have it fresh in mind to discuss it.
And sorry, but I looked like a teenager until I was 30 and there was NO WAY you'd ever get me to set foot in a high school for one more minute than I had to.
I liked the books but I went into them prepared to hate them. I found the covers really off-putting and I have never been a fan of the vampire genre or romance genre. I read all three quickly which means I did enjoy them. But I felt afterward a little like I did when I was a child and would check out 18 Nancy Drews at the start of summer vacation and read them all in a week. It was candy reading. Fun but not as full of substance as the other things I read. (I must say here that I desperately wanted to be Nancy Drew but my neighborhood was terribly short on mysteries)
I think the books are successful at creating tension and for me- because it was set in the northwest- I enjoyed the descriptions of Forks. I know that town andand I get terribly homesick for the west and so that resonnated.
I found I was fairly abstract while reading them. I was never a fan of the Byronic Hero. So while I see that Edward fits that type I wasn't swooning but then I am not much of a swooner. And the books Meyer mentions in her book are Wuthering Heights and Romeo and Juliet. I found Heathcliff and Cathy annoying and there is some playing out of that she is deliberately referencing here. Neither of those books is exactly about healthy relationships. Everyone forgets that Romeo was in love with someone else at the start of the play.
I think I said when I first read it that I wished Bella had more active volition and wasn't always being saved. I sort of hoped Meyer would subvert that but she hasn't yet.
Meyer is also clever in that she gets to have it both ways. Bella and Edward can have remarkable chemistry but they are both virginsa and are forced to be chaste so she doesn't alienate young readers' parents morally. She is somewhat subversive here because Bella is more agressive. There are some literary theorists who have argued that all fairy tales with a male beast/frog transformation to a prince are about reconciling the realities of sexuality so there is some level that Meyer seems to be playing with that idea but I don't want to push that discussion too far because we have a lot of young readers- although I think I am being pretty abstract.
I think what she does do effectively is capture the way teenagers think they are special and no one -especially their parents- has had to go through what they are going through. Harry Potter does some of that too. I think it is right for authors to conspire with younger readers against adults.
I agree with LG that the brooding hero and the always saving the girl is not the best model but I don't think it is worse than other models presented to young women and I think most people sort out the fairytale idea from reality eventually. I actually loved Pullman's books because Lyra fit the hero model (uncertain parentage, prophecy, gutsy).
I am surprised if certain Christian groups have failed to be outraged over the idea that Bella might choose to give up her soul for a boy- it is an ethical dilemma that Meyers brings in - and she does say soul. It doesn't bother me since I see fiction as a separate entity that is not a threat to religion.
I found myself wondering whether Native American friends would be comfortable with the coopting of the Skinwalker idea into her story. It made me a little uncomfortable even though it is clever for her to use it. I was glad that American Indian characters were not stereotyped but I think she walks a line about the magical qualities of a race that is vaguely uncomfortable for me though I can't put my finger on it.
I actually found the second book interesting because of the development of a friendship instead of a romance but that all changed in the third book.
I am curious though still to see how she resolves it. She may yet do something interesting and surprising.
I am not trying to harsh anyone's buzz. It's a romantic fantasy, I get that. But as an adult who has lived a bit longer, I would say that this kind of thing definitely did influence my expectations about relationships, and not to the good. It took me a while to "de-program" from swoonity-swoon, and some of my early relationships suffered for it. Maybe I was just exceptionally naive and impressionable, but I doubt it.
I think I am in a bad position to judge. When I was in high school no one in my family was sure I wouldn't have a shortened life span because of my illness so I spent time contemplating my mortality rather than boys.
I think I may sound harsh about the series. I enjoyed it but I think there are interesting/troubling things that bear discussion.
I think if most people were really good at distinguishing between fantasy and reality, there wouldn't be such a high divorce rate.
There is a really interesting non-fiction book called Reviving Ophelia that a psychologist wrote about the images that young women have to combat these days when she started seeing younger and younger girls with eating disorders or problems with cutting or substance abuse. It was a very well written book and I gave my copy to a Junior High school counselor.
who do you swoon for??
i, personally, would be in love with edward, were he in fact a real human being.
Edward is not 300 LG, perish the thought! He is only 107!! I think that after you read THE BOOK, you should read Edwards Mind . The cullens have used several disguises thru out the years, this "lifetime" they are playing the part of high school students because they have found that the younger they pretend to be the less suspicious the populace of whatever town they are living in. When Edward "died" he was only 17, he is stuck as a teen for eternity, I dont think that it is weird that he fell for a fellow 17 year old. I also want to say that the love between Edward and Bella is not about looks. For Edward, Bella's blood is sweeter than any other human's, as he resists the deadly tentation to taste it, they become closer. I can't believe you dont love this book LG.
blah blah blah I dont know what I'm talking about anymore.
>#21: Mar, mar, mar. Dear sweet Mar. You seriously thought that you could challenge me to a post-length contest? Poor, deluded child. You underestimate me.
*sits back in leather chair, stroking fluffy white cat and smiling evilly*
You know, as you cruise past 40, sadly waving goodbye to your misspent youth as it shrinks in the rearview mirror, it’s easy to become set in your ways. For the first time you start to feel comfortable in your own skin. Part of that is knowing who you are, what you like, and what you dislike. It’s tempting to follow the smooth path, to stick with what you know.
That way lies madness.
Well, if not madness exactly, certainly stultifying boredom. It’s important to mix it up, to take risks, to challenge yourself, to break the mold, to walk a mile in other’s shoes, to make incredibly lengthy run-on sentences by stringing together clichés... where was I?
Oh yeah, fresh approaches. Sometimes you have to actively seek out these challenges. For example, setting yourself a challenge to write lengthy, serious posts for an entire month, when your natural inclination and usual habit is to make brief quips. Likewise, putting some time and consideration into your ponderings (did I hear someone say ramblings?), and sharing your thoughts, feelings and observations when you normally hide these deep in the innermost core of your being, letting nothing out.
At other times, opportunities to change, develop and grow present themselves, and you have to seize them. Carpe diem! (and caveat emptor). I consider Twlilight to be one of those opportunities.
Ah hah! Bet you thought that I had completely forgotten what this thread was about. It’s good to be surprised, isn’t it? Kind of proves my point. But i digress. Back to Twlight.
I don’t have any prejudices against YA fiction, vampire tales, or even romances, although i’m unlikely to read the latter if that’s the main selling point (hey, guy here!). I’m certainly attracted to books that have a widespread readership. I like to get cultural references and feel “in the loop”. But the literary and social criticisms of Twilight, and the suggestions that its popularity was due solely to its romantic appeal to tweens/teenage girls, all conspired to make it a very unlikely choice for me. What happened was, i wanted to return a favour for a BookMooch friend that had helped me out with a book, so i decided to get something from their wishlist – Twilight. Because i felt a little uncomfortable buying a book and passing it on without reading it, and because of the “buzz”, i decided to read it first.
I’m glad that i did. Think how short this post would be otherwise!
(If only, i hear you cry.)
This post is therefore me stepping outside my comfort zone, not only to read this book, but also to post about it. And about my reasons for reading it, my thoughts and feelings about the book. I don’t usually do this. Usually, i would assume that there would be little interest in my thoughts on a book. However, since this is such a popular book in this group, i’m going to assume that some folks are indeed interested in hearing my ramblings. Possibly not at this length, but anyway, what the heck. Maybe i’ll release an abridged version next month, when my words-per-post don’t matter.
So, back to the book. At first, i found it quite interesting. The writing was fairly good, Bella was a well-drawn and progressive character, and the set-up had potential – Bella’s family situation, and the move from the desert to the damp and cold and woody north-west. For me, it all fell down with the appearance of the vampires. They are too unearthly, too beautiful, too one-dimensional. There are no flaws, no failings (discounting murderous bloodlust), to make you appreciate them a real, complex beings. Maybe that’s the attraction for some readers. Personally, I find it hard to feel anything for superhuman characters without failings. I can appreciate the conflict created by the underlying urge to kill against the higher urgings of the soul. But it’s not enough.
Once the vampires appear, there is no further development of Bella, beyond her obsession with Edward. Her position as a victim, or a potential victim needing to be saved, seems cemented. The themes are repeated ad-nauseaum. Bella is clumsy, Edward is inhumanly beautiful, Bella is at terrible risk, Edward is impossibly conflicted, yada yada yada. Bella completely sacrificing / subjugating herself seems such a cop out.
As far as Edward goes, i’m going to have to agree that it’s creepy that someone that has lived hundreds of years has a crush on a seventeen year old. It doesn’t matter that Edward has the physical appearance of a seventeen year old, he has the experiences of someone much older. Unless his hormones have also remained at the point of seventeen-year-old, which his behaviour would question, he is mentally and physiologically an old man.
I forced myself though the end of the book because i hate to leave stuff unfinished, and because i genuinely wanted to see what happened to the characters – alone, that’s argument enough that this book is not without redeeming features. But i passed the book on without a qualm, and with frankly quite a sense of relief. I didn’t touch me deeply, any sympathy i had for Bella was pretty worn off by the end of the book, and I don’t feel that I have been privy to the birth of a new literary phenomenon.
So, that’s the opinion on this book of a 40+ white male, for what it’s worth. You can write it off all you like. But, more importantly, should i read the next book, or just wait until the movies come out?
MrA admits he would never try and win in a longest post contest with me. And says many flattering things about my writing.
He loves loves loves Eclipse, Swooned for Edward and couldn't wait to snap up the rest of the series. He may have to arm wrestle suge to settle the matter of who gets Edward
It was NOT creepy or socially uncomfortable in anyway.
MrA admits he is a 87 year old woman living in Morocco.
Oh and Alan Rickman is cute too.
"MrA looked longingly at the clumsy but cute thread posting which was almost a hundred years younger than himself. He was trying to resist his deeply ingrained nature to post a pithy one liner, a dandy bon mot, a witticism of Wildean superiority"
But instead he refrained calling upon a litany of cliches to purge the taste of pithy response from his posting palate. Back in control once again he was able to write at least 300 words more.
A strain for his arthritic joints which were strongly affected the the rainy season in Morocco.
He sat back pleased and sipped his morroccon mint tea. The mint had been grown in the hill country in the shade of the mountain and picked that morning then transported down to the lowlands by emu pack train. Arriving and the bustling marketplace in the early hours as. MrA rose early dressed in his favorite dress and went to the market where he foiled a pickpocket and a gang of things with only his handgbag and a scarf the buy the precious mint to take home to his becarpeted dwelling and make the precious tea that would cap his day of lengthy posting and urge resisting.
He contemplated the limpid eyes of Alan Rickman as his sipped his tea and wondered if he would have to fight foggi too but smiled in the thought of his handbag skills.
Um, so, Twilight . . .
Good. But not as good as Harry Potter. And all of the people who are touting it as the next literary phenomenon have apparently not realized that it does not have the wide appeal that Harry does. On the other hand, I enjoyed reading it, and I generally don't enjoy 'vampire novels' so I guess that's something.
This is craziness! In the most wonderful way possible! ;)
Wow. I have weird views of books.
I have problems with it. I have reviewed. Let that satisfy you for now. I'll be back.
I think that we are approching this one the wrong way. Its not Kierkegaard, so relax, peeps. If you are looking for a life, and mind alterring read, don't look in the YA section. This a a dark romance, I don't see how Stephanie Meyer has failded in delivering that.
For one, I love the story. It has many interesting facets and subplots. It breathes fresh life to vampire lore. I found myself interested in Bella's life, I wanted to hear what she had to say, how she grew or changed. She reminded me of myself at that age. I've also made no secret of my devout admiration for the Cullens, especially Edward. Ok, he is ultra gorgeous, we all know this, but to quote Bella, " ..he's even more unbelievable behind the face." He is kind, loyal, mentally invinsible, intelligent, brave, stong, curtious, talented, caring... all these atributes coupled (ooooh!) with his incredible good looks, make him the stuff of dreams for a lonely, single girl. It was hard not to fall prisoner to Edward's inexorable gravitaitonal pull.
I like seeing this impossible relationship develop. By all rights Bella and Edward should be mortal enemies, all the odds are against them. Edward is especially susecptible to the call of Bella's blood, it is a situation that catches him of guard, because it rarely happens to vampires, instead of killing Bella he devotes his life to saving hers, to keeping her alive despite her many mishaps. At first, Edward feels that Bella is like a demon sent to destroy the life he and his family have fought so hard to create. For many years they have abstained from drnking human blood, constantly fighting and suppresing that thirst, that is such a part of who they are. I've read many books about vapires who dont drink human blood, but not like this, I found that Steph developed the Cullen world so much more. Each character has a unique compelling history.
I found the dialogue humorous, and very realistic, the things happening in Forks High were the same things that were happeniung in High Shcool when I went, several million years ago. I love the way the Cullens interact seamlessly together regardless of how diffult the situation gets. There is no need for words between them.
How can you not imagine Edward's pain knowing that one day Bella will die, and he will have to continue on, or that the his same fate that he aborhs might one day be hers. Bella and Edwards chemistry was intoxicating, the many elements that should have kept them apart only made them love each other more fiercely.
One of the most interesting subplots was this intriguing "gift" that Edward, Jasper, Alice and even Bella have. The gifts vary, but each is powerful and extremely useful. I have some theories about why Bella can ressit these gifts, I agree with the theory that Alice and Edward present. I will not go into details, I'm not sure if it is a spoiler, but my own little runaway fantasy it that Charlie isn't Bella's real dad (stop laughing), her real dad is a vampire, but I guess that's not possible... sigh... I CANT WAIT TO SEE HOW THIS SAGA DEVELOPS!!!!
(GRR fogive the typos and horrible spelling!!)
i have to dissagree. i personally think that HP is not better than Twilight. i can't believe i just posted that, big HP fan that i am, but its true. now i don't think Twilight is better than HP, but they're just equal.
*wonders if she should ask MrA what retirement homes sound nice*
(grr no spell check, I cant live without it!!)
Another thought I had about this book is, it's too Disney-fied vampire light. Vampires and other goth symbols are supposed to be safe places to explore our dark side and our sexuality. When you make it just about vague squishy feelings of adolescence, it really loses its bite. (Sorry for the bad pun.)
I completely and totally agree with suge. Edwards and Bellas forbidden love really seemed to strike me as romantic... something every young girl dreams about... The feeling that you get from that book is wonderful and it makes you want to reread it over and over and over again... when i first got it i read it 4 or 5 times consecutivly(sp?)
The book is a YA book and that is why it seems so... idk... it is made to conect with young readers... but it seems to have been a hit with all ages... my aunt is 52 and just got done reading it... she loved it and couldnt put it down ... lol it became one of her favorites and she doesn't even like vampire books.
I also think that niether twilight or harry potter is better then one another i have grown to love them both equally although harry was my first love lol... in a book anyway.
I also realated to both in a different ways.
Harry Potter was an orphan growing up with an Aunt and Uncle whom he dispised... Been there done that... my mother died when I was 8 and I was shipped off to live with my aunt and uncle... not fun btw
Bella let her mom do what she wanted and sacrificed her life in Phoenix for her mother to be happy.
My aunt wanted to move to have a horse farm... so I gave up my life where i used to live so she could have her dream.
You just have to get in touch with that small part of you that has always wanted to find that true a love! Could you imagine how hard it is to love someone and not be able to relax near them?? kik
I can't compare Harry Potter to Twilight, they are entirely different. I enjoy both series tremendously.
(ah, spellcheck! I lorves u)
And as for vampires and goth symbols being a safe place to explore our darksides. Well in some books they are but I for one am glad that Stephenie went to all the trouble to stay away from the normal stereotype for vampires... She did a wonderful job creating an opposite of the blood-thirsty, human killing, sleeping at night vampire.
*closes eyes for a couple minutes and concentrates on the sound of breathing*
As I think many of you know, I went into this book prepared to hate it. I had several reasons for being sure I wouldn't like it. First, it is a YA book, and I have an (probably irrational) aversion to YA books. I think a big part of this is that's what I read in jr. high/high school and they really weren't very good at that time. Secondly, I am such a big Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan that I have had trouble getting interested in other vampire stories do to the differing mythology. Third, I felt like the whole vampire/human love thing had been done before (again, my Buffy obsession among many others). I was pleasantly surprised when I found I didn't hate it. In fact, I quite enjoyed it. I went and got the next two and liked each of them just a little bit better than the last.
I agree with MrA that after the first few chapters of the book character development is sadly lacking, particularly for the vampires. However, were you to move on to the next book and the book after next you would discover that there is further development for all characters involved.
I also agree with lg. Quite frankly I find the relationship between Bella and Edward frightening, not for any of the obvious reasons, but for the way she seemed to lose herself in him for a while. I have been there done that and hate seeing it in others, even if they're fictional. As I read the other books, Bella did get more of herself back, had other friends and fought to keep them, though I am still bothered at times by her utter devotion to him.
I find that I liked the book for different reasons than I like the rest of the series. To me, the book was a fun, fluffy, fast read. (The "Three Fs" of summer reading.) While I had a few issues with the --intensity--of the relationship, I was intrigued by the mythology Meyer created and enjoyed the "thriller" second half.
The other two books effected me in a much different way. I could deeply relate to the numbness of despair Bella felt in the next book, I felt it myself in the months--make that years--after leaving my husband. There is a part of me that broke that day, that I will never get back. Meyer wrote those feelings amazingly well. I also enjoyed watching the development of the friendship with Jacob.
As for the book after next I enjoyed watching the uneasy alliance develop. I really like the magnet metaphor. I also began to enjoy the development of Bella and Edward's relationship. At times they almost felt like a normal couple. More than anything else though, I liked Jacob's story. The epilogue in particular, though at first jarring to suddenly be getting someone else's perspective, hit me. I've lived that pain of loving someone but knowing you have to let them go, and I've lievd through running away to do it.
I guess what I'm saying is that, while I have problems with the adolescent romance (btw the age thing doesn't bother me at all, but that might be because Angel was way older than Edward is, and Buffy was younger than Bella when they got together) Meyer writes emotion so well, that I can't not enjoy these books.
One final note. While an individual may like the series more or equally when compared with Harry Potter, it will never reach the following or popularity that Harry does. Personally, I prefer Harry and always will. I'm not even sure that I want to see the movie, but I will probably reread them--in the summers.
I think the longpostitis may now be considered a pandemic. :)
omg, you think Charlie might not be Bella's father, too?! I never even discussed that with you! You're reading my mind! I've been wondering all along what the reason was behind Edward not being able to read Bella's mind and concluded she must not be normal or perhaps even completely human. I had wondered if there was something vampire-ish about her, or her family, or something to that affect. I'm still thinking it over and am considering possibilities.
#65 bella & 66 suge:
*hugs* I lost my father on my 14th birthday. He's still alive - that was the day I learned he fled CA. The sadness then anger that filled me! I haven't let him to my heart since.
I knew you would be! ;)
You noticed each vamp had their story told? I loved those!
Should we see if every one of our summer reads meet the three F's? That would be fun! ;)
I'm sorry for the tough hands life has given you. *hugs*
An attempt at a longer post....
I had spent ages, oh maybe 14-19 reading books by authors like L.J. Smith and Christopher Pike. I can clearly remember the day I stopped reading their books. My sister two years younger than me had seen the cover of one of the books, I had become embarrassed, and decided from then on I would read more classics and fiction. (Mystery had already been replaced by fantasy.) I had thought my days of reading vampire books were done.
Summer of 2007, I received a book from a friend: Twilight. I knew only two things: that it was about vampires, and that my closest friend completely loved the series. I starting reading it afraid if I should not like it because I had really wanted to like it but just thought I couldn't.
It was 10pm when I began reading and I intended to read only one chapter. A few more chapters slipped by. Before I knew it, it was 3am. I wanted to keep reading, but thoughts of school made me go to sleep for three hours. I read all on the bus (1.5 hours each way) to and from school the next day, and probably cut class to read in the library as well. It was a fabulous book and I was immediately ready for book two.
Though offered a borrowed copy, I bought the next book within two days. I read it over a weekend and panicked over my wait from Monday to Friday for my next check. So happy was I that the Harry Potter review contest results were in (hurray, LadyN!) and that I won a gift card for my review. I bought the book after the next book with it.
Once it arrived, I forgot about heading to my college and took a bus straight to a local library intending to read there. I remember slipping onto LT to see I was missing a party that day.
At some point suge gave me the horrible news that there were merely three books out in the series so far. I had thought there were already four.
Now I am hoping it won't end with four, aside from the version of the book written from Edward's point of view. At the same time, all good things must come to an end like as was the case for the Harry Potter series. So long as she ends the series right!
I could never compare one series with another much, so no word from me about the comparison of the harry potter and twilight series. I judge them separately. Harry Potter books will always have a special place in my heart. I admitedly don't know if I could say the same for the other series, but it's wonderful all the same. Both series are fantastic and I love them both.
I don't know how many of you get the emails from Borders, but just in case you don't here is something the book fans among us might enjoy.
Plus I didn't feel like I could be a proper member of the HE group if I didn't read them. ;)
They ended up being one of my favorite 3 F series. So thanks to all of you for being obsessed with the books, which made me read these!
Let me add one more thing that really disturbed me: Edward's stalking. He watches her when she's sleeping. That's a crime in this state.
And all that neck sniffing....ick. I won't be able to get that blech image out of my head. Blech, blech.
He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake...
It's too bad that you didn't like it, but you did try hard and many of the points you said were true. So I will accept it. ;)
Edward, by the way, while being a totally beautiful and sexy, would have to undergo some serious training before I'd date him. He's too controlling at times and then Bella just lets him be.
If any bf of mine refused to let me see a friend, no matter what his intentions were, me and him would be having a discussion...mainly involving my fist in his face.
Aside from all this, I really do love the books. They're beautiful love stories and dramatic and they totally suck me in...
84- Very true.
Watching her when she sleeps...I think it's sweet. Is it really a crime? I can see it being a bad thing, but Edward and Bella have feelings for each other (will you argue against that?) so I don't think anything's wrong with it in their situation.
LOL! I never thought of that! Hilarious! :)
I know. Real human boys are just mean, right? See? The fantasy isn't so bad when you think like me. ;)
I don't swoon. He's fictional.
I can agree Edward was too controlling and your point is an excellent reason to break up with someone like Edward.
Ah! I'm afraid I may have interpreted it the same way as cat. Hehe. :)
You can get defensive about the book. This is the thread where everyone talks about Twilight! ;)
I do love edward but i understand he is only fantasy but i do have to say *blushes* i think tom has a lot of his qualities.... which is nice. When i read the book i kept thinking of him... *sigh*
alright here is goes and sorry if it sounds mean!
I think that everyone who has read it understands that it is a fantasy.. thank-you very much... and i also think that we know that all boys aren't like that becuse of the fact that Edward is a vampire.... but if you haven't met every guy in the world you can not honestly say that there are no nice sweet guys out there. And just because it is not loved by everyone doesn't mean that the people who do love it can not have their fantasy....
grr... i am really really sorry if it sounds super mean.. i still love you L_G
I still haven't read it. I do want to assure Ms_B that nice sweet guys exist. I married one. I proudly wear my wedding band that is inscribed with "As You Wish." He is probably more roly poly than Edward (I'll let cat make comparisons here) but he is my soulmate and I love him.
I don't think LG meant that there are no sweet guys, perhaps just that Edward does not have enough flaws to be considered three dimensional? Especially for a vampire?
I think jp is right about what LG meant.
Bella is clingy too. So I guess that makes them perfect for eachother. At least later on she was making it a point not to spend ALL of her time with Edward.
Sounds like your classic Romeo and Juliet. Two
*runs from thread before anyone sees what she wrote.
Well, I suppose our dear dead Edward could lie down in a feild were he without Bella and say, "Well, I suppose I should act the part now," right? ;)
They are only teens, or at least Bella is, so I can see your point. Why die than live without the other when teens in general are often unlikely to have met their 'true love' yet.
Actually, I had a conversation about this after my kids saw West Side Story. Cat said she preferred Romeo and Juliet because at least Juliet got to die too. I said that it would be a very selfish act and that was Romeo and Juliet's undoing. Romeo thought she was dead, kills himself, Juliet wakes up, sees him dead, kills herself.
By not dying, Maria can turn her grief into something positive. Perhaps she would be the one to knock some sense into kids who would have joined gangs or maybe her tragedy would serve as a physical reminder that killing destroys lives.
With "true" love, you do not kill yourself because you know that your welfare means more to your love than anything.
It's late and I know I'm probably making no sense.
I'm not going to comment further, I don't want to be a drag on your enjoyment of the book.
No, I wasn't saying that. I worded myself carefully to mean teens in general. Edward and Bella are an exception. Edward is immortal and way advanced in years than a teen, after all, and this is ficiton. ;) I do believe Edward and Bella are each other's true love. :)
That sounds amazing and beautiful. Sorry for my negative thought - it was from someone who never knew love as a teen. :)
You've made sense to me. I see your point and must agree.
The one who passed away may not have a choice, but the one who is left behind may choose to honor the will of their dear deceased loved one.
No offense to anyone here but I also found Bella whiny and quite frankly stupid. I can't believe she seriously believed that Edward just stopped caring (talk about low self-esteem!) and her not figuring out what was going on with Jacob was equally stupid and annoying. It drives me nuts when characters in books can't figure obvious things out! I was never in any doubt on either of these point. (Hmm...this somehow turned into a rant, sorry!)
All that being said, I still liked the books and will probably reread them and will likely get Breaking Dawn when it's released.
My point was that there are more important things to look for than a pretty face, and to check that you are not giving up too much of yourself in the other.
#28 -- *blushes* Well, I'm a bit . . . notorious . . . around here. Are you going to make me say it again? Oh, all right -- Snape! Severus Snape. There. Happy now?
Um.... I completely agree. I've always felt bad about it.........
I've enjoyed the series. I went into it thinking that it was just another book. I had to read the first one for a grad class, and couldn't put it down. It was a very easy read, which is nice. I finished the book in 2 days and went out to buy the other 2. I've pre-oredered Breaking Dawn, and really can't wait until it comes out.
I'm still baffled. I thought when people love each other they do everything together. I guess, though, that it makes sense to have separate interests.
Sorry for the rant-like post. The whole idea of anyone doing that scares me now. I got out, other people aren't so lucky.
And he is another example of a wonderful man. They do exist! They are just rare. Especially when they are teens.
In Bellas case she believed that Edward was much to good for her and believed that the balance of things was off just because he wanted to be with her... she tells us that she never had anyone be interested in her before she came to Forks and she also says that Edward is more remarkable behind the face which brings me to believe that she did not just like him for his looks. But it is proven that there has got to be some sort of physical attraction for there to be any kind of mental or emotional attraction.
The story between edward and bella is a great one... in my opinion and Edward is a dream guy, but the fact that he is a vampire shows even the youngest of readers that he is not real.... But you always have to keep some hope. For example: When I first read twilight I was in an um... not very good relationship. I was miserable all the time, black and blue, and alone in most senses of the word. I went to the bookstore, which was one of the few things i was allowed to do (yes, allowed) and picked up twilight. I read it and realized love wasn't being miserable and alone all the time it was sharing something with someone and having fun, smiling. It gave me the motivation I needed to get away and look for someone who deserved me and someone who i deserved. I knew that there was no one like Edward but I knew that i could find someone who was better. And here i am lol.
Since then I have passed the book on and so far everyone i have given it to loves it and it has given a few hope to find someone better. Because trust me most of the men here are not very good catches.
But....back to Twilight.
For me the key to this book was not to take it too seriously. I liked it because it was an exciting, dramatic and romatic, story. Key word there: story. I touched on this in my review, but the whole soul mates/love at first sight/be together forever/borderline stalking is unrealistic, but so are vegetarian vampires living in Washington! It's a story and Bella & Edward's relationship makes for a good story. I guess I view it more as kin to a fairy tale. We could easily analyze everything that is wrong with decisions made by the heroes and heroines in Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and Cinderella - but doing so, for me at least, ruins the fantasy and the magic and the enjoyment of the tale.
Luckily, everyone here is very well adjusted and can have a lively discussion with pros and cons for the subject matter. :o)
Interesting how very similar activities can completely change based on intent. I used to sit next to my husband and x-stitch. When it started it was because I wanted to, but at some point it became forced. When I wasn't working (I was the only one who did) I was expected to spend every moment doing what he wanted me too. He wanted me next to him while he played his games so that's where I had to be, or face the consequences. I will say, he only actually hit me once but the threat was there for ages. The thing about emotional abuse compared to physical abuse is that it's much harder to recognize when it's happening to you and much harder to explain to people. Reading what I wrote about sitting with him, doesn't seem that bad, but trust me, it was terrifying.
#113 I'm sorry you've had to live through that too. Your take on Twilight intrigues me, as it kind of had the opposite effect for me, reminding me of my past relationship, at least Edward did. Jacob had his own issues, but he didn't remind me of my ex.
I do think that Bella's & Edward's obsessive behaviours are unhealthy. Yes, it's supposed to be "just" a fantasy, but as I matured and became more emotionally healthy, those kind of fantasies lost their appeal bigtime. Did unrealistic fantasies "make" me stupid about men? Probably not completely, many factors contribute to a person's attitude or beliefs, but they helped reinforce immature ideas.
In other words, I do think it can be harmful to those who are for some reason emotionally vulnerable. But, apparently, it can also help. We're all different. All I was saying was "check yourself."
Warning: Here, there be neck-sniffing!
I've seen a lot of threads about the books though so I gave in to curiosity and ordered them. But will I enjoy them? I like vampire/werewolf/supernatural books but I know these are aimed at younger readers than me (I'm 33 but don't tell anyone) and although they seem very popular I know I am not the target readership.
I'm hoping that I don't read the first one and realise I should just pass them on to my almost 13 year old neice (who loves the Darren Shan demon books).
Bib I am sorry that you had to go through abusive and glad you realized and got out of it.
Jody don't worry there are plenty of us that are not in out 20s here.
LG did you read Posession by A.S. Byatt. I was trying to think if there were any books that described what it was like to love someone and want to maintain your own identity. That one came to mind although it is complicated. I think I capture the castle is a great book for describing the complications of falling in love and it not being requited or having someone love you and not loving them back in the same way.
I think the problem is most books show the falling in love part or the love being challenged by outside forces part but not the day to day pleasant companionship part or the cleaning the shower part or the who changed the catbox last part. Even Jane Austen- much as I adore her- stops at the wedding.
yes, all the kissing drives me nuts!!!! I'm so glad it isn't all kissing!!
I suppose that is part of what I found so interesting about HP is that it was was dealing with things that would be shocking in many children's books someone trying to kill, evil unpleasant realities. But that is also why I liked it because every child has to deal with some unpleasant realities even growing up in the best of circumstances.
"Is this a kissing book?"
Sorry the Princess Bride quote seemed appropriate. Sory I missed the movie watch last night but I can still quote up a storm.
I just watched that trailer... The movie seems interesting but i can already(just from the trailer) tell that they butchered the book.
I almost wrote that but I didn't want to derail another thread!
(If we were talking about Midnight Sun in some other thread, my apologies. I saw this thread first and couldn't remember which one had it mentioned.)
Thanks. No worries for thinking it sounded like a rant, and I'm very glad you got out of that as well. *hugs*
I'm glad you're with Tom instead of who you were with before. :)
Very true! We should look at the book in a lighter way. It's merely a book. (though a very good one at that! :)
I completely agree. The mental abuse was the one type I had that I didn't always realize was actual abuse until years later. It took until I feared I would reach the end of my life each day that I realized it was such.
I can see what you're saying and can agree.
Gah, I wish it were August so we could read Breaking Dawn, but I wish it were June so I could be meeting LTers, and I'm just so confused. ;)
#134: How about you just say you wish it weren't May? ;)
If it's not a sure thing than people definitely should push for it to be!
Okay. I wish it weren't May! Hmm. *hugs for jp*
I agree. Can you imagine if it never got published? That would be horrible! It makes me think of JKR's The Beatle and the Bard because none of us get to read that, either. The things we wish we could read!
If breaking Dawn is truely the end of the Twilight series, I would ideally like to see Midnight Sun out a year after that. I know it's not likely, but it would be very nice. :)
They don't need to wait for the movies for the books - just look at the Harry Potter books and movies. :)
They'll judge by the Twilight movie for if they'll continue with the rest of the series or not. Let's hope it goes well!
Thanks for the link! I would have missed that. :)
Me too, i LOVE it!!!! Stephenie had better publish Midnight Sun, or i will.............idk, but i'll figure it out!!!!
Ok every body chant with me:
PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!! PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN! *chanting faster* PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN! PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!! PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!
147, right? :) Oh, okay. I'd thought you meant no more books could be published till the movies were caught up. ;)
PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!
PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!!
PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!! *in a small voice "please"*
PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!PUBLISH MIDNIGHT SUN!!!
Ok, how about this:
ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, WE DON'T WANT TO WAIT NO MORE!
FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, MIDNIGHT SUN BEFORE TOO LATE!
Thanks. I was trying new ways of demanding it's publication. ;)
The other person has one that says 'Bite me' and then has stuff about the Edward Cullen Fan Club on the back, I think.
What does yours look like?
I'm not a t-shirt kind of girl, when I do wear them its just to work out, walk my dogs, or around the house. I am especially unattracted to message tees.
Hovering T-shirts! Spooky.
You'll hate my newest t-shirt then. (Something work sells.) I thought it looked comfy for home or just running out fast.
My biggest t-shirt and general complaint about tops are the stupid tags. There was this new thing about putting them on the left side instead of on the back of the neck. They touch part of my scar from my back surgery and irritate and hurt me to no end. I remove tags from most of my tops because of this, but with some tops, it doesn't help.
172- Ouch! That is annoying. I like when shirts have the tags in a softer material on the back of the neck, or have no tags at all, and instead print the information on the shirt itself.
I'm very choosy about what kind of shirts I wear. They can't be uncomfortable in the least, or I won't wear them.
I love when they print the tag information on the actual shirt, too! :)
My mom, aunt, and grandmother always teased me about that story when I was a kid! They swore I was just like her. ;)
I also prefer cropped sleeves. The ordinary and loose sleeves on t-shirts probably make me look more like a kid. (Someone accused me of being thirteen on Monday so I'm still unhappy about that.)
I really hate the tags on the side, too.
If you wear that tee-shirt that makes you look young when you fly, maybe they will let you go see the cockpit ;)
Opps! I thought cropped was much shorter than that and what is actually called capped. In that case, I like both cropped and capped sleeves.
Sadly, it was my face. Most people guess that I'm between sixteen and twenty when they see me.
I call those 3/4 sleeves as well. I love those. Most of the time I push full length sleeves to there out of habbit. :)
I agree, that's something that makes them perfect. :)
Normal t-shirt sleeves are my favorite, though 3/4 sleeves are good too for spring and fall days especially. Capped sleeves are okay, but certainly not preferable.
And I've been rereading Twilight because I thought surely it will take me longer to reread it than the 1 day it took me to read it the first time. Nope. I started it yesterday afternoon and I'm finishing the last 100 pages this morning. It is almost frustrating, the way it sucks me in like that because I really start to feel like I can't put it down. Even when I've read it before! So does that mean I should ration my readings of these books so as not to become addicted or something? I guess now I know to set aside the day when I plan to read or reread one.
Soooo.... we went to see the new Indiana Jones movie Sunday night late. I went to get drinks for us (reaaallly long line) and when I got back I had missed all the previews. I was informed that the Twilight preview was on. :(
Everyone tells me it will help me enjoy looking younger when I am much older. :)
Ahh, the Twilight reading. Nope, I think we may always read that book rather quickly. We're doomed. ;) I've read that book three times now. Each read was rather quick.
You absolutely do not sound that way, and besides the matter, I never even think about there being any sort of age difference. :)
Yes, that does happen to me still. I suppose it's not a bad thing. When I was still taking classes however, I got very annoyed being asked if I was a high school or junior high student taking college classes (when I was 18-21) or welcomed to my first term of college even at 23. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that right now. :)
I find it hilarious. ;)
Are you sure they weren't teasing you? I had thought the trailor wasn't playing yet. Then again, I never go out to see movies, so what do I know.
Is there another movie you want to see soon? Maybe you'll have another chance soon! :)
I admittedly like to watch previews of movies after I buy them on the special features section of movies. :)
Previews are quite fun. Especially when it's a movie you're really looking forward to, and then there's the preview! Much more fun on the big screen than on the computer screen, of course.
I love previews! How many times have they been better than the actual movie or the movie you are going to see? The Harry Potter previews usually blow me away!
I don't care about my sleeves as long as I can hide my bra straps. I hate my upper arms, but I hate being hot even more.
Edited for spelling
Nevertheless: I love the fact he isn't selfish, and I mean selfish in the sense that he doesn't want to change Bella to have a partner like Rosalie and Alice. Must be quite something for a vampire.
I hadn't thought about him watching her as she sleeps, but yeah, now that I think about it, it's creepy. I don't even like anyone other than my sisters in my room when I'm sleeping, and I'm okay with them because we've shared a room. when I had a roommate last year it took me weeks before I was completely comfortable with her in the room when I was sleeping, and she was one of my best friends.
I prefer the tee-shirts with shorter sleeves, because the other kind make my arms look scrawny. and I like 3/4 length sleeves because they don't have to hit your arm at an exact spot, whereas many long sleeved shirts are just a little the wrong length.
and I don't have a crush on Edward, I can appreciate that he is physically attractive, but I don't think that we would get along as a couple. ditto for jacob.
I did get irritated with Bella during new moon, I think part of it was that I both know that Edward would come back and that Jacob was turning into a werewolf before I even opened the book, so it took way too long for her to figure it out, that may be why it was my least favorite of the books (I did still like it, just not as much as the others). while I did find her a little irritating at times, I still found Bella lovable.
it's interesting that Romeo and Juliette came up in reference to the events of New Moon, because that's what she was constantly referencing in the book. she was saying that Edward's trying to die with Bella was almost their undoing, and that you should at least verify facts before trying to kill yourself because you think that the person you love is dead.
I think that's all the topics I wanted to talk about, I may think of something else later though.
Back to Twilight movie:
You'll never guess what I saw yesterday. I was in Sams Club looking at TV's and this guy walks up to help us. I had to do a triple take. He looked exactly like Robert Pattison. It was so weird. I tried really hard not to stare, but I mean he could have been his twin! He even smiled the same.... so weird.
hmm, we can only dream.
It's funny, the main reason why I don't have a crush on Edward hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: that he's icecold! Every time she kissed his cold lips, or lay against his cold chest - I just thought, ow how uncomfortable! The film made it a bit better, as you couldn't see that he was as cold as ice, but still, the white skin... No, I'll have a warm-blooded human, thank you.
Overall I liked the books, although I also thought Edward was overall a bit too good to be true, and Bella too insecure. I mean, how many invites for the school ball did she get - four or five or so - so where did she get her low self-esteem from? Would have been a nice addition if that would have been part of the story too (or did I miss something?).