Next book after Kafka and Joyce

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Next book after Kafka and Joyce

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Dez 1, 2008, 2:01 am

Shall we commence the brainstorming?

Dez 1, 2008, 2:47 am

Since December is already upon us how about taking a rest this month and planning our January group read? That'll give the group a chance to catch up or finish any past group reads. I know that I have been waiting for school to end so that I can read The Trial. It'll also allow for people to add the group read book to their Christmas wishlist. ;)

Dez 1, 2008, 4:35 am

I'm perfectly happy to skip December: it's a crazy month, very little reading time. (And then some Xmas reading on the 25th on...)

Plus, I've barely started the James Joyce!

In the spirit of this thread: can I suggest Hemingway's A Farewell to Arms? Just because I want to give Hemingway a second chance (I found him annoyingly difficult when I tried reading him as a teenager), and I've asked Santa for it. :)

I'd also be in for Moby Dick (I put my copy down several years ago, and am DETERMINED to finish it in 2009), or Anna Karenina (ditto), but maybe a break from Tolstoy post-War and Peace would be preferred by others.

Dez 1, 2008, 9:50 am

Yeah, I'm still working on Joyce and Kafka, so I'm for a break.

Dez 1, 2008, 11:15 am

January sounds good to me.

I've been thinking about O Pioneers! by Willa Cather, a kind of tip of the hat to kjellica, since this is about Scandinavian pioneers in the Midwest. Or, possibly The Octopus by Frank Norris, Or, Jack London's The Sea Wolf. Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann would be okay, as well.

Dez 1, 2008, 11:20 am

Happy for the break - I'd be out anyway until the New Year (too busy finishing up everything I wanted to read in 2008)

Dez 1, 2008, 3:35 pm

I enthusiastically put forth three books for your consideration for the January read:

Three Trapped Tigers by G. Cabrera Infante

The Abyss by Marguerite Yourcenar

Petals of Blood by Ngũgĩ wa Thiongʾo

Dez 1, 2008, 9:32 pm

I'd be glad of a break in December. For January, I humbly (and somewhat randomly) submit:

Runaway by Alice Munro
Moon and Sixpence by W. Somerset Maugham
Sea of Poppies by Amitav Ghosh
Unaccustomed Earth by Jhumpa Lahiri
Disquiet by Julia Leigh

Or....something else...

Editado: Dez 1, 2008, 9:43 pm

#7> I'd love to read any of those, I'm sure, but I can't find them on the website for my personal favourite bookshop in Sydney:

And I'd prefer to not buy from overseas, where possible. The postage down under can be prohibitive, not to mention the Aussie dollar wasn't looking too healthy last I looked making that postage even more costly.

All good suggestions so far, but at the moment I'll just stick with seconding Moon and Sixpence because I was just discussing Maugham with a workmate and I've never read his stuff.

ETA: Abbey's isn't just my favourite bookshop, it is an excellent bookshop. If they don't stock it, it's not because they're slack, it's because it's not easily available in Australia.

Dez 1, 2008, 10:09 pm

Even if we end up not reading them, Petals of Blood and Three Trapped Tigers are available here and here respectively with free shipping to many countries (including Australia) for those that are interested. Since we're not starting until January, there is plenty of time. :)

All good book suggestions so far--keep them coming!!

Dez 1, 2008, 11:40 pm

I'm in the mood for French...

Madame Bovary by Flaubert
Pere Goriot by Balzac
Count of Monte Cristo by Dumas
Les Misérables by Hugo

Dez 2, 2008, 7:03 am

I like the idea of reading something french, I don't think we've had a french author yet?

So I'll second pere goirot

Dez 2, 2008, 12:16 pm

I'm up for the French read - especially Les Miserables as it has been staring at me reproachfully from the shelf where it sits for many years.

Dez 2, 2008, 2:03 pm

>13 Fourpawz2:...that's funny, Jean Valjean's "evil" brother, The Count of Monte Cristo is staring down at me. I'd have to give him my vote so he'll get released from the stacks.

Dez 2, 2008, 3:09 pm

I'll throw Madame Bovary into the mix. Oh, someone beat me to it I see. Well then I'll second it.

Also, for a contemporary French read, I'd suggest The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbery. Wonderful book.

Dez 2, 2008, 6:07 pm

I am also interested in Moby Dick.

Dez 2, 2008, 8:32 pm

10> Ack, the Book Depository! I've only heard good things about them, so have been trying to avoid it because I know I've got no willpower for such places. ;)

Happy to go with whatever book(s) is finally chosen, but hopefully at least one will be easy to source Down Under.

Dez 2, 2008, 9:11 pm

I'll third Pere Goriot. I've heard Balzac has a couple other books as well ;)

Editado: Dez 2, 2008, 9:51 pm

A suggestion for two books that no one Ever mentions; one long and one short.

-Forsyte Saga by John Galsworthy

If the Forsyte Saga is not long enough we could always add on the other two volumes of the trilogy, if people wish it. I am flexible. :-)

-The Little Prince by Saint-Exupery.

There is of course a common theme between the two.

Dez 2, 2008, 11:46 pm

The Forsyte Saga was voted on by the group once awhile back - did well too, if memory serves.

Dez 3, 2008, 12:51 pm

I don't mention this lightly (pun optional), but what about Jean-Christophe by Romain Rolland?

And I have yet to see a nomination in this thread for The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa, so I put one forth.

How about Willa Cather's Death Comes for the Archbishop as an American alternative?

Editado: Dez 3, 2008, 1:10 pm

I was all for Death Comes for the Archbiship a book decision or two ago. Still am. (stinking touchstones not working - arrrrggg!!!)

Dez 4, 2008, 12:44 am

I would like to read The Forsyte Saga, and a start date in January suits me well.
(I've got an old Norwegian edition (5 double volumes) and a new English one (3 paperback volumes) of TFS)

Editado: Dez 4, 2008, 1:09 am

Esta mensagem foi removida pelo seu autor.

Editado: Dez 4, 2008, 4:51 pm


I've been trying to sell my church group on The Leopard for a few months running without success. I could go for it.


Dez 4, 2008, 7:17 pm

kjellika, thanks. am glad to see i am not alone on Forsyte Saga. If we do it people will have to decide how many volumes they wish to read...

also, i am curious why The Little Prince has no support. is that because:

-it is so short
-has pictures
-is not literal enough
-it is French

Dez 4, 2008, 8:47 pm

I think The Little Prince is just too short yes.
Plus, I've already read it. :)

Although, I've also already read The Count of Monte-Cristo and Les Miserables. I'm waiting to go home for xmas to see what French novels I can recommend.

I can't decide if I want to go with Balzac, Zola, Guy de Maupassant, Aragon...

Dez 4, 2008, 8:58 pm

Urquhart, I give no support to The Little Prince because I read it to my daughter and then my older grandkids, and frankly I am sick of the dratted thing...along with all the Babar books.

Dez 4, 2008, 10:12 pm

I've already read The Little Prince and I wasn't a fan. (Just not into allegories.) I did enjoy Wind, Sand and Stars by the same author, which is an amazing non-fiction tale of his time flying planes around Europe pre-WW2 (? I think, it was a while ago now!).

Happy to go with Forsythe Saga, or something french. Happy to go with a short book alongside something more monumental, too. :)

When do we open up for voting? How many can we vote for?

Dez 5, 2008, 1:37 am

I'd like to vote for The Leopard because it's not too long (still recovering from War and Peace & Middlemarch) and it's sitting on my bookshelf as I've just borrowed it from my local library.

Editado: Dez 5, 2008, 2:27 am

wookie, we usually brainstorm awhile then compile the ones with the most support and narrow it down for a vote. It takes awhile -- since we're not starting until January, we could aim for Dec. 15th to start the next phase of the process.

eta: I'd also like to read The Leopard

Dez 5, 2008, 9:32 am

I'll second geneg's suggestion of Buddenbrooks--it's one I've always wanted to read.

Dez 5, 2008, 11:23 am

I think if we are going to recommend or suggest a multivolume work such as The Forsyte Saga we should decide whether we are talking about one volume or the entire set before we begin voting. If it gets enough recommendations to wind up on the vote list, we need to know what we're voting on.

I know at a certain level this is intuitive and probably doesn't need to be said, but it's best when possible points of confusion are cleared up sooner rather than later.

Dez 5, 2008, 1:58 pm

I agree with Geneg when he says:

"I think if we are going to recommend or suggest a multivolume work such as The Forsyte Saga we should decide whether we are talking about one volume or the entire set before we begin voting. If it gets enough recommendations to wind up on the vote list, we need to know what we're voting on."

So people may wish to know the following:

The Forsyte Saga is a trilogy of trilogies.

The Forsyte Saga
Man of Property
In Chancery
To Let

A Modern Comedy
The White Monkey
The Silver Spoon
Swan Song

End of Chapter
Maid In Waiting
Flowering Wilderness
One More River

My own perspective is that I prefer long books since they save on gasoline and allow me a better chance to get to know another culture and time. The Forsyte Saga and War and Peace (and David Copperfield) are books I return to once every twenty years. (Three in total.) With each reading I discover new insights and joys of language.

The Little Prince is not a long book but it does have pictures and for some people a picture is worth a thousand words. However it lacks the large family genealogies that Forsyte Saga and War and Peace have in abundance.

Dez 5, 2008, 3:26 pm

I love The Little Prince and think there is merit to the book for what it is. But one of the main reasons this group started was to read a substantial piece of work (we started with War and Peace) and have a place to go for support and engage in some dialogue and thoughts about the work. That's not to say the Little Prince wouldn't create some good dialogue, I just think it's not in the scope of what this group is doing.

That said, I will now totally contradict myself:

Maybe some people could discuss The Little Prince as a December book, since it is so short, sort of an unofficial, easy read for the holidays. Does anyone have strong objections to this? Urquhart, if some people want to do that, would you want to lead the discussion?

Dez 5, 2008, 3:44 pm

I'm definitely up for something French, and would like to throw my support behind The Count of Monte Cristo, Madame Bovary, and Les Miserables, since I was hoping to read them all next year anyway.

Dez 5, 2008, 3:52 pm

I'll prefer to read only the first volume (the first trilogy) of The Forsyte Saga this time. My Penguin Classics edition has got 906 pages. We could possibly read the remaining volumes in one year or/and two years, reading some other books in the meantime.

I would like to read Buddenbrooks as well, but 'TFS' is my first choice.

I remember my parents watched the TV series The Forsyte Saga many years ago (in the '60s ?? BBC production??), and they loved it.

Dez 5, 2008, 5:37 pm

The Forsyte Saga is in my TBR pile and I would love to read it with all of your input. I have read a fair amount of French literature, so although I would not join in the read of those French titles mentioned, they are fabulous options.

I also think January sounds most realistic!

Dez 5, 2008, 8:47 pm

My sincere thanks to all for being willing to at least discuss the subject of the 2 titles.

My personal view as to whether I read a book is usually based on a planetary alignment or as Saul Bellow would say ‘the axial lines.” If I sense now is not the right time for a book then I simply don’t read it. Likewise if people don’t wish to read a book then that should be perfectly ok. Which is fine.

On the matter of The Little Prince
My special thanks go out to the individual who said they were fed up with fables. If you don’t like a particular flavor of ice cream there is no reason to force feed oneself. Which is fine.

“The Little Prince is a philosophical story, including societal criticism and remarking on the strangeness of the adult world.”

walker percy
From The Moviegoer by Walker Percy: "Tolstoy and Saint-Exupéry were right about war, etc."

“Antoine de Saint-Exupéry was, in the words of André Maurois, ‘a Conrad of the ... Language "

Also thanks to those who said it was too short. Which is fine. If this group is to be worthwhile and engaged then people need to be honest with their participation. My wife, for instance, does not read long books. Which is fine.

A short story if I may:
About 45 yrs. ago I was working in the bookstore in Bloomingdales in NYC. From time to time we had large sale displays of faux antique books. Such sale displays would inevitably attract people with their interior decorators. One day I asked a prospective buyer with her decorator if she was looking for style or substance in the purchase of such a series of books. (Such books are usually bought in larger numbers to fill a wall.) I said this with an absolutely serious expression and intonation of voice. She responded equally sincerely that she wanted “a bit of both.” Which is fine.

Books are for whatever purpose you choose. Some like short; some like long; some like both; some want a certain book now, and others would prefer it later; some people don’t like books at all. Which is fine.

On the matter of The Forsyte Saga, I would agree with the thought already expressed that it is probably too long a book for this group. Which is fine.

I guess in summary, if any individual ever decides to read either book, I would be happy to correspond.

Dez 5, 2008, 10:47 pm

Re: The Little Prince: if we wish to do this one as a short December read, I'd be happy to join in. Maybe I'll enjoy it more, reading it with a group discussion.

Re: The Forsythe Saga. I'm quite keen to read this, but would probably balk at the idea of reading the whole trilogy-of-trilogies! I second the suggestion of reading the first trilogy in January, then the subsequent trilogies at a later stage.

And thanks teelgee for the info on the voting. I'll also put in a comment saying I'd also like to read The Leopard as I saw the movie a few years back, and thought it would have made a better book. :)

Or any of the French authors, if I can just keep on naming books to read. ;)

Dez 6, 2008, 2:52 am

Something French sounds great, Balzac and Dumas both appeal (and I have The Count of Monte Cristo on my bookshelf). Wasn't a big fan of Madame Bovary, though I wouldn't rule out another Flaubert. I'd take a crack at the Forsythe Saga too.

Dez 6, 2008, 11:13 am

For the Saint-Exupery fans, how about a compromise, How about Flight to Arras?

Editado: Dez 6, 2008, 12:00 pm

#36> I second Les Miserables, which just came out in a new English translation by Julie Rose. It is said to restore the flavor of the original, lost in the usual bowdlerized versions.

Dez 6, 2008, 7:06 pm

If we're going to go French, I'd much prefer Balzac: Pere Goirot, Cousin Bette, or something like that.

Dez 7, 2008, 3:48 pm

I'd love to read Les Miserables or The Count of Monte Christo...

Dez 7, 2008, 4:17 pm

Lots of good choices, I wouldn't mind tackling The Forsythe Saga (the first triology), Les Miserables or Madame Bovary. This will be my first group read with this group!

Dez 7, 2008, 4:56 pm

If anyone decides to read the Little Prince, I'll read along with your posts. After many glowing recommendations about 10 years ago, I read it and it did absolutely nothing for me. Perhaps if I follow along with your posts you I'll see what the appeal is.

Dez 7, 2008, 8:14 pm

Just to reiterate for the record, numerous people have suggested that the full Forsyte Saga is too long and The Little Prince is too short.

I therefore support The Count of Monte Cristo, Madame Bovary, and Les Miserables.

Whatever.... :-)

Dez 8, 2008, 6:03 am

I would like to read Les Miserables or The Count of Monte Cristo.

Dez 8, 2008, 11:42 am

I'll cast a vote for Les Miserables.

Editado: Dez 9, 2008, 3:33 pm

So, the last post was more than 24 hours ago, so I thought I would make a list of nominations:

The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
The Forsyte Saga by John Galsworthy
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Flight to Arras by Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Cousin Bette by Honore de Balzac
Pere Goriot by Honore de Balzac
Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann
The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa
Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather
Moby Dick by Herman Melville
Jean Christophe by Romain Rolland
Runaway by Alice Munro
Moon and Sixpence by W. Somerset Maugham
Sea of Poppies by Amitav Ghosh
Unaccustomed Earth by Jhumpa Lahiri
Disquiet by Julia Leigh
Three Trapped Tigers by G. Cabrera Infante
O Pioneers by Willa Cather
The Abyss by Marguerite Yourcenar
Petals of Blood by Ngũgĩ wa Thiongʾo
The Octopus by
The Sea Wolf by Jack London

That's quite a list. Could be a year's worth of great reads. Let me know if I missed any. I may have, since some weren't highlighted. Anyway, unless there are objections, let's vote.,, get it down to the top five, then vote again for a winner? First round of voting open until, say, 8 pm(Eastern Standard Time), Monday, Dec. 15th?

Editado: Dez 11, 2008, 2:09 am

Are we only allowed to vote for one book in the first round? Are we going to setup a link on "Visu Web Polls" for voting or will we cast our votes on this thread?
There are so many great books I haven't read yet on this list -- Oooh Goodie!

Thanks, hemlokgang for your work in compiling this list and keeping the group organized. "Group Reads - Literature" is truly a wonderful place to find great books to read -- I thank you all.

Dez 9, 2008, 5:47 pm

I'd prefer to read either:
Cousin Bette by Honore de Balzac (I believe my grandmother and mother have been trying to get me to read this one for years)
Pere Goriot by Honore de Balzac
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert (And I believe my aunt loves this one)

Although I've already read them, for anyone with concerns, I do recommend:
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas

I've been on a French classic lit kick lately trying to read all the classics that I should have already read considering I am French. (I at least read the more modern stuff.) If you guys need any help choosing suitable translations (into English) for the French books, I'd be glad to do some comparisons between the original French and the available English translations. :)

Dez 9, 2008, 5:57 pm

The Vizu poll won't accept such a long list. Have to get it down to 10. So, how about everyone vote for three in Round 1, and I will tally the votes if someone else will also do so to make sure the numbers are accurate.

Dez 9, 2008, 6:16 pm

>54 hemlokgang: I'll also tally to make sure our numbers match. I'll leave you the totals I come up with as a private message on your profile by the morning of the 16th.

Editado: Dez 9, 2008, 6:25 pm

Thanks so much, christiguc! Good plan!

By the way, my votes are for:

The Forsyte Saga by John Galsworthy
The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa
Moon and Sixpence by W. Somerset Maugham

Dez 9, 2008, 7:28 pm

Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann
Moby Dick by Herman Melville
The Abyss by Marguerite Yourcenar

Dez 9, 2008, 8:06 pm

My personal rule is to participate if the group picks a book that I already own . . . but I'm awfully tempted by Les Miz.

Dez 9, 2008, 9:10 pm

Argh, just three??? ;)

Moby Dick
The Leopard
The Forsyte Saga (the first trilogy)

But I'd really be happy with 90% of what's listed, I'm here to read new stuff and there's some fabulous recommendations.

Dez 9, 2008, 9:51 pm

Here are my three:

Pere Goirot by Honore de Balzac
Runaway by Alice Munro
The Abyss by Marguerite Yourcenar

Dez 10, 2008, 2:41 am

The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa
Pere Goriot by Honore de Balzac
Moon and Sixpence by W. Somerset Maugham

Dez 10, 2008, 6:58 am

My choices are:
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
The Moon and Sixpence by Somerset Maughan
Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann

Dez 10, 2008, 9:22 am

My votes are for:
Moby Dick
The Sea Wolf
The Count of Monte Cristo.

However, there are lots of wonderful books on the list! :)

Dez 10, 2008, 9:44 am

Dez 10, 2008, 10:23 am

Dez 10, 2008, 12:33 pm

Esta mensagem foi removida pelo seu autor.

Dez 10, 2008, 2:59 pm

Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
The Forsyte Saga by John Galsworthy

Dez 11, 2008, 3:25 pm

Dez 11, 2008, 10:49 pm

Editado: Dez 12, 2008, 1:08 am

Please don't vote in Les Miserables.

I have hundreds of books in my TBR continent, but not that one. Plus, I have my reading scheduled for the next few months, due to a little thing called "university courses that I've paid a lot of money to take and will be graded on." So I have no time for this major-novel-that-I-really-want-to-read. Please have mercy on this time-crunched student-who-is-also-a-mother-wife, and-generally-busy-person*. Of course, if you ignore my pleas, I can always follow your discussion at my leisure later. That is the beauty of LibraryThing.

*funny, LT only accepts a limited number of hyphenated words in a row before obliterating them. Interesting.

Dez 14, 2008, 9:46 am

With a tip of the cap to 78> Nickelini, I will reevaluate my priorities to vote for the following:
The Sea Wolf
The Count of Monte Cristo

Dez 14, 2008, 8:42 pm

My votes are:
Madame Bovary
The Count of Monte Christo
Les Miserable

Editado: Dez 15, 2008, 8:11 pm

Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll Final Poll

Because of a tie with some books, we're taking the top 6 to vote (instead of the top 5). Please be honest and only vote once!

Poll is here.

Dez 15, 2008, 7:47 pm

For those of you that want to keep tabs on the results as they come in, you can keep looking here.

Voting open until the 21st.

Dez 15, 2008, 10:43 pm

You evil people, tempting me so! All the choices are so tantalizing . . . yet how am I going to find time to read these books, especially if a long one wins?

Dez 15, 2008, 11:36 pm

This is by far the most difficult choice so far. Five of the books are on my TBR list. I can't decide, help!
Suggestions welcomed... I'm leaning toward The Count of Monte Cristo for a real reading challenge.

Dez 16, 2008, 12:25 pm

Despite its length the Count isn't what I would consider a reading challenge. At the end of the day it's an adventure story and reads as such. Thus, it's actually a very quick read. Les Miserables is more difficult to read as is Don Quixote.

Dez 17, 2008, 4:03 pm

christiguc - Thanks for setting up the poll! Can't wait to see the results!

Dez 19, 2008, 12:49 am

Um, what happens if we end up with a tie...?

Dez 19, 2008, 1:35 am

WOW it's really close -- almost a dead heat as of Dec. 18th - Three more days to vote!
Would we have a run-off if it's a tie?

17% (7) Madame Bovary, Gustave Flaubert
12% (5) Petals of Blood, Ngũgĩ wa Thiongʾo
14% (6) The Leopard, Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa
17% (7) Les Miserables, Victor Hugo
19% (8) The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas
19% (8) Pere Goriot, Honore de Balzac

41 voters so far...

Dez 19, 2008, 9:16 am

I would guess we would have a run-off, but I would vote for a shorter voting span if that comes to pass.

Dez 19, 2008, 10:19 am

If we have a tie, let's read 'em both. Between them they are only a little longer than Middlemarch or Bleak House. If we have more than two, still, let's read 'em all.

Editado: Dez 21, 2008, 11:08 am

Oh well, it looks like the only two on the list that I haven't read are in last place and unlikely to change overnight. So, barring a miracle, I will enjoy following comments and wait patiently for the next round. Enjoy every word, folks, because they are all great reads!

Dez 22, 2008, 10:41 am

It was close, with good support for all the books.

The results:

Pere Goriot - 12 votes (23%)
The Count of Monte Cristo - 11 votes (21%)
Les Miserables - 9 votes (17%)
Madame Bovary - 7 votes (13%)
Petals of Blood - 6 votes (11%)
The Leopard - 6 votes (11%)

So, Pere Goriot it is! We'll start in January? Rosemeria, I believe you made the first suggestion--do you want to start the threads?

Dez 22, 2008, 5:04 pm

Via le France!

I have the Penguin Classics version, titled - Old Goriot, translated by Marion Ayton Crawford, 1951. There are no chapters/divisions in this translation -- Does anyone have more info on the different translations? And which one are you reading?

"Le Pere Goriot" was originally published in four installments in the "Revne de Paris" between Dec. 14, 1834 and Feb. 11, 1835. There are many English translations -- I believe some translations have the division of text in the original four parts. Can someone research and tell us the four divisions and work from there...

Book available online:
Download this ebook for free Project Gutenbery - Father Goriot by Honoré de Balzac

Audio (French & English) LibriVox - Le pere Goriot by Honoré de Balzac

Editado: Dez 23, 2008, 11:37 am

I'll have to sit out this one - way too far from my TBR list.

Dez 23, 2008, 11:38 am


You can always try the LibriVox audio version for free (or read online at Project Gutenberg).

Dez 23, 2008, 1:45 pm

Thanks, I could try, but rarely stick to reading online (beyond a page or two). Anyway, I have KL, the Trial, and Joyce to catch up with.

Editado: Dez 25, 2008, 5:01 pm

Sorry, I'm not going to participate in the group read of the chosen book (Father Goriot) this time. Instead I'll read some of the books on my TBR pile, among them Berlin Alexanderplatz and A Room of One's Own for the LT group 'Project 1929':