The King of Elfland’s Daughter LE

Lord Dunsany's highly influential fantasy tale gets the Folio limited edition treatment. With illustrations from Julie Dillon and an introduction from Erin Morgenstern this new edition launches 2 April.

Really nice! Will have to wait for the SE, but very glad this is being added to the Folio stable.

Not interested in the book, but I do like Dillon's illustration style and I hope commissions like this bode well for her future career.

Oo, good choice, will looking forward to checking this out. Another that I will likely get as an SE, should any be forthcoming.

Is there a website where we can see this information/photos?

Edit: Image posted to my Profile.

>7 HonorWulf: HTML tag-ified

>9 Shadekeep: Ha you bet me to it.

>9 Shadekeep: Thanks! Can never figure out how to post images here... I also put it my Profile if anyone wants to see it at larger size.

>11 HonorWulf: You almost had it, just needed the angle-brackets and closing slash, like so:

<img src='https://pics.cdn.librarything.com//picsizes/18/aa/18aa0ead2c944d46373544836774449414d6741_v5.jpg'/>

The art looks good, thanks for sharing!

>12 Shadekeep: Gotcha. Was trying to use the Library Thing mark-up with the brackets. Good to know, thanks!

>13 HonorWulf: Aye, it's a mixed bag here, with custom LT format codes and only a subset of HTML allowed. It can get a might confusing!

Here's the larger image you posted on your account:

>13 HonorWulf: The touchstones are only for linking to works - not to images and other links. :)

Thanks, gang!

>14 Shadekeep: Where did they place the ad? I'm guessing facebook.

This one is tempting, gosh!

>17 SDB2012: it was in the ‘Folio curiosities/monthly round-up’ email they sent out today.

This one is definitely tempting, but given that Conversation Tree Press is planning letterpress-printed works of Lord Dunsany as part of their Weird collection, I will most likely wait and see...

The Wiki biographical entry on Lord Dunsany is fascinating. I must admit that I had never heard of him before today.

>19 antinous_in_london: Odd that I didn't get that email when I get their others.

>23 SDB2012: FS are random with their emails. I didn't get it either but I did receive the notification yesterday that the The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet has sold over two thirds.

>23 SDB2012:
>24 assemblyman:

Same here. I really don't know on what basis one gets emails or not.

>25 SF-72: I signed up with my personal email & a work email - one got it, the other didn’t. It seems very random as to which email gets them & which doesn’t !

>26 antinous_in_london:

That's interesting - and really weird. As it is, I get most current information from Librarything, not FS.

After years of suggesting both Roadside Picnic and The King of Elfland's Daughter in Folio surveys, along with many others I'm sure, we finally have both of them in Folio editions.

>21 English-bookseller: Standard Ebooks has a few Dunsany books (including The King of Elfland's Daughter) if you want to check him out:

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks?query=Dunsany&sort=newest&view=grid&am...

You might want to check out "Fifty-One Tales" as they are all short bursts of Dunsany that will give you a good idea of his style.

>29 LeBacon: Thank for those suggestions!

For those interested in Lord Dunsany, Pegana Press has produced some amazing hand-produced letterpress works --

https://peganapress.com/lord-dunsany

I believe they have sold out of the vast majority of their Dunsany publications over the years. That said, I believe a couple are still available. Also, yes, very expensive, but very much the going rate for letterpress publications of this quality.

>31 astropi: I don’t know if I agree with that last statement.

Their small books used to be around $400, and are now $800 it looks like.

They also engage in that foul practice of increasing the prices of their books as their stock goes down.

>32 What_What: The signed edition I believe is around $800, but their Lost Tales Volume 6 by Lord Dunsany is $550 -- still a lot of money for sure, but for hand-set & hand-bound letterpress it's really reasonable in my opinion. Also, it's true their prices used to be around $400 but prices have really gone-up a ton since the pandemic.

I've just received an e-mail from Folio formally announcing the launch.

This will seriously tempt me as I don't think this will sell well enough to justify a SE down the road. I wonder if it will cost 295 pounds or how much...

>34 dyhtstriyk: Similar boat…I don’t usually buy LEs and it’s not the best time for me to buy something expensive, but this looks really nice!

>33 astropi: Thanks for the notes. There’s definitely a lot of competition for funds these days!

>34 dyhtstriyk: I expect it to be priced exactly at 295 £. Concept-wise very similiar to the LE of "Roadside Picnic".
Edit: Just saw that it's quarter-bound in indigo leather so might be more expensive than that

Does anyone else find the cover design reminds them of the FS Night Thoughts?

>38 RRCBS:

Me! I have a copy of Night Thoughts and thought initially this was another version. I have a feeling this new LE will be quite a bit smaller, though.

This does look nice from what I can see so far, and I'm excited that Dunsany is getting some Folio attention, but something about the illustration style doesn't seem to fit the weirdness of Dunsany's vision. It's too soft, and homogenizes Elfland into classic genre Fantasy. Maybe the overall effect will be more pleasing in person (it often is), but I can't help the impression that this is a well-executed attempt at a quite different art direction than I would prefer.

For modern fantasy artists, I think someone like Seb McKinnon would be a much better fit.

Or high-quality reproductions of the original Sidney Sime illustrations:

>41 abysswalker: For this title, illustration singular, isn’t it?

It looks like it could be £375. Someone on the Facebook group had it up when they put it in their wish list the price shows. I was not able to do it myself.

>42 Vaudois: could be just a frontispiece, I don't recall. He has done a lot of work for other Dunsay books as well.

Even if not using Sime's work directly, something with similar style would fit the work better I think.

>40 abysswalker: That was my first thought on seeing the art for this volume, and now that you've sent me to the work of Seb McKinnon, I agree that his work is much closer to how I see the scenes within the book.

>43 assemblyman: I've also successfully done so and it shows as £375

I'm not saying I blame the FS, after all a company needs to make money, but many of their recent LEs seem like standard editions with arguably a nicer cover and maybe a print or so. I'm thinking of --

The Moonstone
We Have Always Lived in the Castle (I think the SE has a better cover honestly)
Roadside Picnic
Turn of the Screw
Casino Royale

While I have no interested in The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet -- I give them kudos for having that signed by the author which certainly makes it stand out.

>47 astropi: I agree completely. Seems quite lazy to produce such an ordinary LE, even when priced accordingly.

removed by me

I’m not happy to see that it’s yet another foreword by Neil Gaiman. His takes on other people’s books do nothing for me.

>50 CabbageMoth:

They should have reused the foreword by Sprague de Camp, or even something by an actual Dunsany scholar, like Darrell Shweitzer.

>50 CabbageMoth: Amen. It's like listening to a mediocre popstar tell you how they were influenced by Vivaldi or Joy Division. I agree with the suggestions Alveric made.

>50 CabbageMoth:>52 I agree. FS seem to keep a few of these writers on rotation for their introductions.

The hype about Neil Gaiman in the fine press world really annoyes me.

For Dunsany S.T. Joshi would have been fitting, but not Gaiman.
I guess, that's a name that sells better. He has a huge fanbase.

>44 abysswalker: I think that’s right, as >49 Alveric: seems to bear out. And, yes, I have a copy of The Gods of Pegana for the (eight) Sime photogravures. Couldn’t agree more about the suitability of the match, though the process is just as important for the result as the style.

I spoke to Conversation Tree Press this morning, and they have no plans to do Elfland’s Daughter soon, but may visit it in the future (maybe years from now?) the owner expressed interest after he saw the FS release. He did not like it.

>49 Alveric: After reading your post and not being that familiar with works by Dunsany, I have to retract my statement on Folio's interpretation that "I am a fan of the overall design, as well as the possible style of the illustrations based on the visible piece". The first edition is vastly superior and stylish...

>56 Alveric:
Conversationtreepress has planned 25 WEIRD Volumes in total according to the webpage, 1 - 2 per year. Not sure when Dunsany will have his Volume(s) and whether it will include this particular novel at all.

removed by me

>59 Alveric: Very nice! I like those endpapers, too.

>59 Alveric: Gorgeous!

>59 Alveric: That's a hell of a first edition. Is the title 'Lord' involved in this extravagance perhaps?

>62 A.Godhelm: It is truly a work of art. Also:

Lord Dunsany, born Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett, 18th Baron of Dunsany.

Not when you live in a 1000 year old Anglo-Norman Castle, with a demesne!

>59 Alveric: That copy is in phenomenal condition! What a treasure :)

By the way, regarding the Pegana Press "Lost Tales" --
https://peganapress.blogspot.com/p/pegana-press-titles.html

This new collection spans 1910-1954. Featuring 3 Unpublished stories provided by Dunsany Castle along with 4 rare, uncollected stories presented for the first time in book form.

Featuring also a very rare and beautiful Sidney Sime watercolour frontispiece. This full colour painting was one of several commissioned by Lord Dunsany and completed by Sime in 1926. This is the first appearance in 88 years.

Again, expensive but I feel definitely of interest to Dunsany fans. I think they're actually on Lost Tales volume VI and it's possible volumes 1-5 are sold out.

>64 astropi: volumes 4, 5, and 6 are still available from the press.

>65 abysswalker: Thumbs Up :)
Again, I know they're expensive, but I don't think the stories have been printed anywhere else and they're definitely fabulous editions.

Anyone know what time this goes live? I emailed them and they of course knew nothing. I also want to know how they determine what # you receive.

>67 Alveric:
Usually 2pm GMT, but not certain, could be 10am. Book numbers are sometimes given in order, first in best dressed, but at other times random.
When you are dealing with the Folio Society you have to accept illogical randomness in everything from emails to discounts, reissues and prices.
Just go with the flow........

>68 wcarter:
Thanks for the info!

I do like the look and art --



My "worry" is that it might be a bit pricey only to be followed by the inevitable SE which will basically be the same book minus Erin Morgenstern's signature and the print. The first time I remember this happening is back when the FS released their Lovecraft LE -- which was quite expensive and in my mind you got far less bang for your buck compared to the SE which is not only still available, but quite lovely
https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/the-call-of-cthulhu-other-weird-stories-core.ht...

>70 astropi: I'm not recalling many recent LE's where the book was significantly different from the SE, except maybe in finer points that matter to some collectors like signatures (and SE's with paper covers). Roadside Picnic, The Turn of the Screw, We Have Always Lived in the Castle, etc all seem minimally distinguished. Only a few titles like Gormenghast jump out as markedly different. Probably the forthcoming LE of The Hobbit will be another one they go all out on, but for this title I think you're not going to see a huge shift from the LE to the SE. If I'm being frank, this LE already looks like an SE.

It should have been half bound.

I’m sure the book looks much better in person. Their graphics they released leave much to be desired.

According to their website the book costs $540. That’s 1/3rd of the price of their lord of the rings which cost $1,500. That was 3 books. So same price for one book really.

>72 Pendrainllwyn: The Turn of the Screw wasn’t a good example, but the point still stands, there have been some truly mediocre LEs. The Haunting of Hill House, We Have Always Lived in a Castle, Roadside Picnic, Moonstone, Origin of the Species. A Long Way to a Small Angry Plant, with its sprayed edges, looks like the standard Anansi Boys tucked into an unusual enclosure.

At lease Screw, Casino Royale, Shadow of the Wind, Dracula, Frankenstein, Rob Roy, the Peloponnesian War and The Histories were all fully bound in leather. So was The Divine Comedy, with especially luxurious leather. LOTR was giant, Shakespeare and Gormenghast had interesting bindings. Aurora Australis had wooden boards.

Slapping a quarter leather binding and shoving it in a slipcase doesn’t a LE make. Elfland looks just as lazy and underwhelming as the ones I mentioned a couple paragraphs up.

There are also numerous standard editions that are quarter bound in leather. The Dante books, Paradise Lost, the Myths and Legends series, Beowulf; News From Nowhere was fully bound in leather.

So yes, you may have picked the wrong ones - some of the current LEs are really what they used to publish as standard editions. And when the FS decides to take that unimaginative approach, they should be called out, because they can clearly do better.

And hopefully it’s not a price thing - nobody needs cheap LEs, they are LEs for a reason, especially when they publish the standard editions later.

>72 Pendrainllwyn:
The Turn of the Screw is one of their best LE, because it was handbound by great book artisans in the best possible materials available. The edges aren't spray painted aswell, which is just cheap and not fitting for an LE. . .

Folio Society is very random and I often think they don't know what they are up to.
Theire product descriptions are horrible plain. They often don't even mention that the book is bound in full-grain leather or is hardbound or machine bound etcetera

>72 Pendrainllwyn: I suppose I have different criteria for what I considered a significant upgrade, especially at the price differentials between some SE's and LE's. Leather binding, edge gilding, numbering, etc, those are the same upgrades you get at Easton Press and other places. I expect an LE to be truly different, such as printed letterpress or in a unique presentation like that one edition of The Divine Comedy.

If the differences are enough for you, that's fine. But too often lately the LE's just don't distinguish themselves sufficiently to entice me. Granted, I'm a hard case because I collect fine press, so I have entirely different parameters as to what constitutes "worth it for the price".

>75 Pax_Romana: A very good point, as none of those attributes were immediately apparent to me either. The end product still doesn't look markedly improved at a cursory glance, certain not at the price point, but it does sound like there are significant improvements "under the hood".

While I agree with the general sentiment of inflation in cost and deflation in materials, for me one of (if not the single) most important material attribute is the quality of the paper used. I'll take a book printed on luxurious paper with a simple binding over a fancy binding with run of the mill (pun intended) paper any day. It's unfortunate that the age of Instagram and web marketing makes the paper often an afterthought.

And, credit where credit is due, most of Folios LEs do involve paper upgrades compared to standard editions. Often minor, but sometimes substantial (though recently never truly fine papers such as mould-made).

>72 Pendrainllwyn: The Turn of the Screw LE is fully bound in leather, has gilded edges and limited to 250 copies. If that constitutes only a minimally distinguished difference to an SE then doing spot the difference puzzles when you were a kid probably wasn't your strong point :-)

I really don't understand why we have to be insulting here. Regardless, let me say that just because a book is bound in leather does not make it "amazing" -- if that were the case then every Easton Press book should be phenomenal since they are all bound in genuine leather. Also, gilded edges do NOT make a book "special" -- again, every single Easton Press book is gilded and yes, they use genuine gold. If that's the look you're going for then again, check out Easton Press, you will be in heaven.

As >76 Shadekeep: stated I expect an LE to be truly different BINGO
A LE should never be a near carbon copy of a standard edition with a nicer cover. If the FS LE Turn of the Screw was printed letterpress that would be something most of the folk in the fine press forum would be excited about. As it stands, even when Turn of the Screw was on sale (I think it was 50% off) most of us were not interested for the aforementioned reasons.

>49 Alveric: 'oversized jacket'

Never encountered that before. Why is that a plus? My first thought is that it seems more like carelessness or pretentiousness. Or bling is older than I thought ;-)

>79 Cat_of_Ulthar:

It was not by design they were oversized. They just weren’t cut to the shape of the book. The other two to this specific set have the jackets cut to the book. I love the oversized jacket because it’s scarce to find one intact now. Those little oddities are fun for the collector 😊

>78 astropi:
Wrong 😁
Genuine Leather can be everything, but basically, it's split grain leather, which has a plastic feel, doesn't breathe, and is very likely to not survive for centuries to come.
The books may be one of the best options on the market if you have a small purse, but they aren't what I would define as amazing.

If you take the Turn of the Screw LE here again. The leather really makes a difference. You will know what I mean if you own high-quality leather books.

Nevertheless, I agree that leather alone doesn't make a good design.
For me, it's the combination of all these three: design, materials used for the binding, high quality paper (I love letterpress printing, because you have wonderful options for exotic, special papers that you don't have with offset printing, but thats a story for another day)

One of Folio Society's biggest strength in general is the designing in my opinion.

>81 Pax_Romana: I actually think that Suntup beats FS when it comes to the design of the covers on their higher editions. Sure, not every one of them is a winner, but they do a good job making each tier look distinct, while still relating each design back to the book itself.

I'm not a leather fetishist so I can't speak as to exact materials used each time, but aesthetically I feel that Suntup comes out on top here.

EDIT: I wonder at the insistence of some folks on one side of this argument. I think we can discuss this without resorting to unflattering commentary about people's abilities or outright declaring someone to be wrong. It's important to remember that opinions are simply that, opinions.

>82 Shadekeep:
I just wanted to let it sound "fun". It was meant more sarcastically and not as critique. Astropi and everyone here has his opinion and that is totally fine with me. Sorry, if anyone felt offended.

>83 Pax_Romana: I rather figured you did, since you used an emoji, but I wanted to make sure folks weren't getting too worked up about the whole thing. Sometimes it's difficult to convey tone in this format. Fortunately this tends to be a very respectful group!

I know a lot of people who buy FS may also buy Suntup, Conversation Tree Press, Lyra's, Amaranthine, Books Illustrated, etc., but as someone who has realized that they don't really care about fine press, or even letterpress, I'm very glad Folio LEs exist! (I'm glad to have one publisher who makes books that I adore!) I even love Folio LEs much more than their SEs — for example, I got the Dune LE recently which I kept my expectations low for because people kept saying it wasn't much of an improvement over the SE, but I was astounded when I got it in my hands because it's beautiful, huge, has nice paper, etc., and I ended up reading Dune Messiah afterwards in ebook form because I knew the Dune Messiah SE wouldn't be able to compare to the Dune LE for me. A lot of the LEs that people call mediocre on here - Roadside Picnic, We Have Always Lived in the Castle, A Long Way to a Small Angry Plant, etc. - are personally ones that I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of - no doubt partly because of the stories themselves being excellent - and I would look forward to having more LEs designed this way. One thing I really like about FS LEs is how obvious it is to me that they were designed by someone who really loved the story.

Of course, the more unique LEs such as Shakespeare, Dante, Studies from Nature, Aurora Australis are also awesome, but I do like having more of the so-called mediocre and very beautiful LEs which come in nice-looking slipcases or cool-looking, non-solander boxes throughout the year, with the larger, more unique, and even more budget-busting sets interspersed more rarely.

I'm glad there are different styles of books for everyone though. The outer physical look/design of a book - not the material - is very important to me, and so you could not pay me to put the older, more rare, 250 copies only version of The King of Elfland's Daughter in my home. But clearly, many people who do like that version would say the same about the new Folio edition, which is perfectly fine. Even if/when Folio LEs are the same as the SE with the ONLY difference being a prettier binding, I'd probably still prefer the LE. If an LE happens to just be an SE with bells & whistles, then that's fine with me, although I do appreciate when we get a larger sized book/illustrations, finer paper, etc. The latter isn't a must for me though.

To be perfectly honest, when I first saw the reveal for Folio's The King of Elfland's Daughter LE, I was not attracted to it — I found it more on the "too classical" spectrum for me - and I was initially sad that it wasn't something immediately attractive to me like the We Have Always Lived in the Castle LE. However, I trust Folio and know firsthand how beautiful their LEs are in person even when I doubt their look online, e.g. The Moonstone (or sometimes I don't even realize their value to me until I'm reading them, e.g. Casino Royale), so after staring at the pictures of The King of Elfland's Daughter online and trying to visualize what it'll be like in person, I'm fairly confident I'll enjoy it both as a little slipcased set with a print as well as as a reading experience since I'm sure the classical outer look will complement the inner content, which I am looking forward to reading. And while the look of the book itself made me pause and consider and manipulate my own mind (lol), I love the slipcase and the art style so I'd be really surprised sad if this LE didn't work for me. [Edited the adjective because I can see me jinxing myself with overconfidence.]

>78 astropi: "As it stands, even when Turn of the Screw was on sale (I think it was 50% off) most of us were not interested for the aforementioned reasons."

Interestingly enough, people on Facebook had the opposite reaction from what I could tell. Vocal FS Devotees on LT and FS fans on FB used to both be aligned on hating The Turn of the Screw LE, but as soon as the 50% off sale happened, it seemed to me that people on Facebook started hyping up how beautiful the book was and kept mentioning how it was bound by Ludlow Bookbinders, even though this didn't seem to matter at full price XD To be fair though, there were certainly people who loved the LE the whole time but didn't say much or buy it because of the high price, so I'm glad the sale made it more accessible to those who liked it!

My mail above has been flagged by a few people. I didn't intend it to be insulting but clearly it was taken that way so I have deleted it. Apologies to Shadekeep for any offence caused.

>86 BooksFriendsNotFood:

I was one of the people very vocally for it on Facebook during the sale, but I also did love it before. I just couldn't afford it full price and wasn't able to buy it during the Summer Sale, so was waiting and hoping it would be discounted again. I'm very happy it was and to have it, and think it's one of my most beautiful books.

>88 roserainford: I'm so glad to hear that!!

For me, I never would've purchased Casino Royale if it wasn't half off and now I'm so glad I did because I love it very much ◡̈

>81 Pax_Romana: Wrong 😁
Genuine Leather can be everything, but basically, it's split grain leather, which has a plastic feel, doesn't breathe, and is very likely to not survive for centuries to come.

Genuine leather can be full leather or top grain or split.
Easton Press typically (DLEs are an exception) does not use full leather because people don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for one of their "normal" editions. That said, they do NOT use bonded leather which are leather scraps and fiber. So yes, Easton Press does indeed use genuine leather for ALL of their books. Also, while Easton Press has not been around for centuries, they have been around for decades. A very good friend of mine had some Easton Press books from decades ago (his father purchased a few books) and they looked like they were just off the press.

If you're happy with your Turn of the Screw more power to you -- I thought it was unremarkable and overpriced, but I truly do not mean to insult or belittle anyone that purchased and loves it, that's just my personal opinion -- I know I've purchased books that others consider "overpriced" and/or "not remarkable" and as long as you're happy, kudos.

>90 astropi: "I know I've purchased books that others consider "overpriced" and/or "not remarkable" and as long as you're happy, kudos."

Hear, hear!

>90 astropi: I know I've purchased books that others consider "overpriced" and/or "not remarkable" and as long as you're happy, kudos.

That probably covers a fair tranche of my fine press collection to most people. And I agree, to each their own. We all love books, and it's fascinating what each of us loves in particular about them. I'd hate for everyone to have the same tastes!

>85 BooksFriendsNotFood: That was a bit long, but my takeaway was that you enjoy the LEs because they're LEs, not because they're actually special or unique.

>87 Pendrainllwyn: Don't worry about it, it happens.

>90 astropi: Easton Press books use cheap leather - you get what you pay for.

[TL;DR provided below in bold at bottom because I really do not want/expect anyone to read all this lol.]

>93 What_What: Mmm I'd disagree. They're very uniquely designed — you cannot find books like them anywhere else, in my opinion. I don't have or like The Turn of the Screw LE personally because as people have said, it is literally just the SE in leather binding + foil (definitely much prettier than the SE from an outer/physical perspective, but not unique enough for me as an object or a story I want to own, which is why I have neither edition) but the LEs I do have are just gorgeous to me (even disregarding how in many cases, there is a noticeable difference when reading an LE vs. SE if only because of the often thicker and smoother paper — but again, this is moot in terms of what I've been saying because although it's a huge benefit, I wouldn't complain even without this distinguishing factor).

Some examples of LEs I prefer to the SEs (when there is one) just because they're beautiful —

- Dune: Whereas I don't find the SE attractive (I actually tried really hard to get this one to save myself money, but I just did not like the look of it), the cover of the LE, the stunning box, the oversized-ness, etc. are stunning.
- The Moonstone: The art on the cloth looks so good and goes so well with the shiny, dark blue leather. The nice paper plus lovely illustrations made for a wonderful reading experience.
- We Have Always Lived in the Castle: So stunning at first glance, and in your hands when you're reading it! Whereas the SE is not attractive to me and thus I wouldn't want to own it.
- A Long Way to a Small Angry Plant: As you mentioned, it's very much like an SE (like Anansi Boys, which is a gorgeous edition) but in a stunning box and with a ribbon bookmark. But for whatever reason, FS doesn't really make their SEs this pretty.
- Roadside Picnic: The SE design is not attractive to me whereas the LE design is. I know the slipcase is called "gimmicky" but I love it + the cover design + the cold foil endpapers.

Another thing I notice about these titles and other titles I have LEs of is that there is no other edition of those specific books I've seen in the world that I think are more beautiful than the LE editions. I've also been thinking recently that I indulge in LEs as often as I do because usually, they are books I have not read before and many times, I need an attractive physical book to get me to actually read the story. The only two LEs I bought after reading the stories were Casino Royale (it was the 50% off sale, which I was afraid I would regret, but then I took the opportunity to re-read it and I was astounded at the quality and joy of reading the edition) and Hitchhiker's Guide (because it was so expensive, I binge read the series right before buying it, and then re-read book one of the LE and yep, it was absolutely worth it as I'm constantly thinking about continuing my re-read of the series just to get my hands on those beautiful books and illustrations again).

I think I may have said this before, but I think an LE is something that even non-readers would find beautiful. I have a bunch of my LEs lined up on a shelf because my bookshelf is on the verge of exploding and they literally look like art pieces, but because they're FS, they're brilliant reading experiences as well. And when FS makes both an LE version and an SE version, I don't think there has ever been a case where I found the SE more beautiful (which is probably intentional on FS's part). Either I prefer the LE or I am not attracted enough to either to make a purchase (an example of the latter would be Gormenghast). I think some people look at the specs of an SE vs. an LE to really figure out whether there are upgrades, but I just look at pictures of both and naturally find that one is more aesthetically pleasing than the other. (Dante actually threw me for a loop when the SE was revealed because that is one of the few good-looking SEs and I felt like a fool for buying the LE at secondhand prices until a few weeks passed by and I realized (or convinced myself?) that I did actually like the LE better.)

TL;DR: So perhaps instead of the idea being that I like LEs because they're LEs, I might instead say I like LEs because even if they're not very different from SEs, they are more aesthetically pleasing / more nicely designed. To put it more bluntly, they have prettier covers and/or come in a prettier package. It's like how "special editions" of trade books may just be a color scheme change of the cover or sprayed edges, or if we're lucky, a complete dust jacket redesign, but Folio takes that to a higher extreme to extort even more money from us, which I clearly support.

Also yes, I am noticeably long-winded, which is why I often appreciate your concise arguments! I totally support you not reading this long comment.

>93 What_What: Thanks for saying that. One of the things I love about LT is how respectful the discussions generally are, probably because we all share a love of books. I am mortified to have slipped up and will be more mindful in future.

>94 BooksFriendsNotFood:
I like your point of view.

>96 wcarter: Thank you, I really appreciate that! :)

To omit Sidney Sime’s “The Hunting of the Unicorn” and trade it for a boring, sterile and modern take on the world of Elfland is a grave sin of literature and art.

>98 Alveric: I do much prefer the new Folio art based on what I've seen of it so far, but it's cool that you like the Sidney Sime piece so much!

>94 BooksFriendsNotFood: Thanks for the explanation.Even if in my opinion they're not lavishly designed, they're still the best you can get in most cases, so why not get them.

>95 Pendrainllwyn: :)

>100 What_What: I feel like you're not convinced that I genuinely adore them but I swear I do XD They're very fun, attractive, and colorful. They don't take themselves too seriously and don't make (m)any presumptions of "high art" or "culture", at least in my eyes. I can't imagine editions I'd like better.

I appreciate you trying to make sense of my rambling though!

EDIT: Out of curiosity, is there any existing edition of a book (from any publisher) that you would identify as your ideal style & that you do think of as lavish? I assume this answer is very different from person to person so I’d love to know what kind of physical books you most enjoy!

>101 BooksFriendsNotFood:
I agree with your viewpoint, too. It's the reason almost all my purchased FS LEs are unique to FS and not just lavish facsimiles (with some honorable exceptions such as the FS edition of the Kelmscott Chaucer). Admittedly, this is less true now that the bookbinder genius, Joe Whitlock Blundell, has retired from overseeing the FS LEs. The LEs in the last few years due seem more mechanical and lack Blundell's magic touch. But I am still purchasing a large number of them, so what do I know.

>93 What_What: Easton Press books use cheap leather - you get what you pay for.

Not true when it comes to their DLE ("Deluxe Limited Editions") most of those are "imported Italian cowhide" which is really quite lovely. As for their standard edition, I inquired and they noted it's pigskin which as you noted is not expensive nor "luxurious". That said, regardless of what people may say, they look nice and more importantly they are sturdy. Again, I've seen Easton Press books from the 80s that look like they're brand new. Also, they're honestly not that "cheap" anymore. The days of $40 Easton Press books are long behind us. I find that most of their books are around $100+ which is honestly still a good deal, in my opinion.

Here's a look at their non-limited Tolkien set which is a great deal:

https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/sci-fi-and-fantasy/tolkiens-classics-...

>103 astropi: Agreed. I'm still glad I finally went for their edition of The Kalevala. Which is illustrated by Seb McKinnon, who abysswalker wisely suggested as a good fit for this forthcoming book. I agree with that, too.

>103 astropi: I've been eyeing that for a while! Looks fabulous --
https://www.eastonpress.com/deluxe-editions/the-kalevala-3714.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from the EP edition there are no other fine/limited/special editions?

>105 astropi: Not that I've found. I've been on the hunt for a great edition of the Kalevala for years, and this is the only thing that I've found which even comes close so far.

>106 Shadekeep: Thanks, that's my impression too. Also those illustrations are just amazing.

I asked for Dunsany in previous surveys but this one will be out of my price reach unless it sells well and they release an SE.

>106 Shadekeep: I have been looking for a nice edition of the Irish epic Táin Bó Cúailnge for years but am ambivalent about the Easton Press DLE.

>108 assemblyman: I love the binding itself on the Táin Bó Cúailnge, but I must admit I can't stand the art of Howard David Johnson; it's just much too digital for my tastes. Everything looks like a CG render or a photoshopped photograph.

>108 assemblyman: I can't find it now, but I swear when I was in the FS website earlier it said the USA cost was $525 (plus shipping).

>109 Honjo: I agree that the illustrations for the DLE Táin Bó Cúailnge are not my cup of tea, but then again, are there any other options? Also, the printed illustrations could potentially be less jarring than what's on the website :)

>108 assemblyman: >109 Honjo: Indeed, another epic I'd like a fine edition of. Have to agree that the art this time doesn't do it for me, as nice as the rest of the book is. The art style is very much à la mode as you might find on ArtStation and other places where folks share their digital works. Fine for some things, but epic works should have epic art. Again, McKinnon really takes the prize here, and I'd like the Táin to have the same quality of illustration.

EDIT: >110 astropi: That's true, and may end up going for it anyway. Or may opt for an academic edition in the interim, if someone like the Bodleian has done one.

>102 podaniel: That's awesome! Which of the older vs. newer LEs do you like best?

>111 Shadekeep: I'm from Ireland originally, as such I have a stronger interest in the Táin than the Kalevala, overall; but I still bought the latter first on account of Mckinnon's beautiful illustrations, which have that hand crafted mystic quality that's so rare today.

Sadly, my version arrived to the UK after a ten week wait with a bit of an issue. Some of the gold dots on the cover failed to adhere properly to the leather, leaving some empty holes. When I contacted Easton Press, they stated it affected every copy of this edition, so replacing it for another one would be pointless. They did offer a refund if I wanted to send it back, but in the end, I decided to keep it.

Regarding this Folio edition of The King of Elfland's Daughter, I admit I'm a bit disappointed that it's only quarter bound. Although Folio's LE LOTR is undoubtedly the most beautiful illustrated edition of Tolkien's work ever published, I have seen many custom bindings that I think look better overall, partially on account of being full leather. Most of them were significantly cheaper, as well. I quite like the slipcase (although princess Lirazel looks a bit masculine for some reason), but I confess I'm not at all a fan of the artist's work, based on what I can find online. The style seems like it would be more suited to a prepubescent girl's fantasy book than with this tale. Looking at her portfolio, I can't help but think she was selected primarily on the basis of her politics, which is very evident in her work. Sadly, this appears to be a growing trend these days, and for almost every publisher, but I suppose I should just be grateful these books aren't illustrated by an A.I yet.

I still intend to buy the book, and have set aside the money to do so come April 2nd. Despite my criticisms, I still actually like the look of it, overall. I'm just disappointed Dunsany's most acclaimed work didn't get a more appropriate treatment. At this stage, my only real cause for concern is what those illustrations look like.

>112 BooksFriendsNotFood:

For original LEs (not facsimiles):

1. Blake's Night Thoughts. The first time Edward Young's poem was integrated with Blake's water colors, as intended.
2. Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel. Similarly, the first time Dore's illustrations were integrated into an English translation of the book.
3. Faulkner's Sound and the Fury. Also, the first time different colored ink was used as suggested by the author.
4. Hugo's Toilers of the Sea. First use of author's own water colors matched with the book (but, I don't believe, drawn especially for the book).
5. The "set" of Alice in Wonderland, Gulliver's Travels, Just So Stories, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Rubaiyat, and Wind in the Willows.

I'm sure others have their own favorites.

>113 Honjo: I can't help but think she was selected primarily on the basis of her politics
Sadly, you're almost certainly correct. It seems like these days people care more about what a person "thinks" about a topic than their actual contribution to art, society, etc. Back during the Vietnam War, a reporter asked Elvis Presley "Mr Presley, as you've mentioned your time in the service, what is your opinion of war protesters and would you today refuse to be drafted?" -- His wonderful response was I'm just an entertainer and I'd rather not say. I suppose nowadays people would immediately demonize him for "not taking a stand with justice...blah blah".
Also, I'm really curious if you don't mind sharing where you found her portfolio (or if some reason you're not comfortable posting, could you please send me a message, as I said, I'm curious :)

>114 podaniel: Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel. Similarly, the first time Dore's illustrations were integrated into an English translation of the book.
Gargantua and Pantagruel has been printed with Dore's art for literally 100+ years in English -- what the FS did, apparently for the first time, is include ALL the illustrations he created for the work. In other words, you can find "nice" editions with Dore's art (Easton Press, Franklin Library all readily come to mind -- and they tend to be quite inexpensive) but they won't have all the illustrations.

Hugo's Toilers of the Sea. First use of author's own water colors matched with the book (but, I don't believe, drawn especially for the book).
Again, the FS apparently used ALL his illustrations for the first time, but previous editions with at least some of his illustrations have been around for at least decades. Also, well maybe I'm not understanding you, but since Victor Hugo died in 1885 his illustrations were definitely not drawn especially for the FS edition :)

Back in 2010 (wow... that was a while ago) I created a thread "Rank the FS Limited Editions" -- my #1 pick was Night Thoughts -- I've never seen anything like that before, and I don't think anything like that exists outside this edition.
https://www.librarything.com/topic/100078#2234667
ps Feel free to add to the thread!

>115 astropi: I don't talk politics here, for the same reason I don't talk religion. Happy to discuss either in private, as long as folks are prepared to potentially be offended that I differ from them.

It was easy enough not to bring politics into the discussion decades ago in the US, when there was still an implicit (and often explicit) monoculture, and one was instantly apprehendable as being either inside or outside that culture. Now there is non-stop politicisation of every aspect of culture, driven by polar extremes at both ends ready to pounce on any who fail their purity tests. I don't blame folks these days for staking a position in such a virulently polarised world, but dream of the future where such things once again recede to the fringes where they belong.

As someone who deals with artists for a living, it's challenging to see how the person's politics would differentiate them from ... all the other artists :)

>114 podaniel: Thanks for sharing!

removed by me

Julie Dillon (the artist for King of Elfland's Daughter LE) has a website at https://www.juliedillonart.com/about

Not having a 'diverse' art portfolio is the kiss of death commercially with massive industry pressures to produce exactly that. I wouldn't point the finger to individual artists being "political" when they choose to have such a portfolio. They paint what the market demands, and hopefully have some left over for their personal projects at the end.

Not having read the book, but judging from the expressive dark fantasy art in the original, the problem here rather seems that the art is a bit bland and generic, fit to produce some Magic the Gathering cards or concept art for a fantasy game. That may be a clash with the vibe of the book in favour of something more saccharine?

Regardless of her art style, I doubt her selection was based on her political beliefs. She's a long-time collaborator with Neil Gaiman, having illustrated his Snow, Glass, Apples and Sunbird novellas, as well as providing supplemental art on a number of his other projects over the years. I suspect the Gaiman connection was more of a factor in her selection for this particular book.

>119 Alveric: "This is a clear case of someone whose talent is outweighed by her drive to pander to a certain political leaning... Shame on Folio Society for commissioning this, based off of . . . what exactly?"

Meanwhile, Awards and Honors:

2017 Hugo Award for Best Professional Artist
2017 Chesley Award for "At Galaxy's Edge" for "Best Paperback Illustration"
2017 Locus Award for Best Artist
2016 British Fantasy Award for Best Artist
2016 Alfie Award for Best Artist
2016 Locus Award for "Best Art Book" for "Imagined Realms Book 2: Earth and Sky"
2015 Hugo Award Winner for Best Professional Artist
2015 Chesley Award Winner for "Beneath the Surface" in Best Hardcover Illustration (published in "Shadows Beneath: The Writing Excuses Anthology" edited by Brandon Sanderson; Dragonsteel Entertainment, June 2014)
2015 Chesley Award Winner for "Diver's Haul" in Best Magazine Illustration (published in Analog Magazine, April 2014)
2015 Winner of Best Color 2D Art at Sasquan (WorldCon 73)
2015 Winner of Best in Show at NorWesCon Art show
2014 Hugo Award Winner for Best Professional Artist
2013 Hugo Award Nominee for Best Professional Artist
2013 Art Show Winner at LoneStarCon (WorldCon 71)
2012 and 2014 World Fantasy Award Nominee for Best Artist
2011 Chesley Award Winner for "The Dala Horse" in Best Interior Illustration Art.
Winner of Best Color Work, Best Artist, and Best in Show at ArmadilloCon Art Show.
2010 Chesley Award Winner for “Planetary Alignment” in Best Unpublished Color, and 2010 Chesley Nominee for “Honeycomb” in Best Magazine Art.

>123 What_What:

Why should I care about any of these awards, when I can look at her art myself?

Meanwhile: Sidney Sime

https://www.artrenewal.org/artists/sidney-h-sime/2773

>124 Alveric: It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you're missing the glaring point my post made.

>125 What_What:

You mentioned awards and honors which are meaningless to me (and probably are meaningless).

I raise art that bears little distinction and creativity from AI:





Does that argument not work for you? I felt nothing when I saw the art they had offered earlier. I am probably not the only person with this opinion. Tell me, do awards and honors (arbitrary as they are) actually matter? What did this person win awards and honors for exactly?

>126 Alveric: It’s one thing not to like the art (I don’t like it either FWIW), but another thing to say someone who’s work has been recognized so much is a talentless hack.

Frankly, you’re coming across as a bit unhinged.

>127 What_What: Note joining date. We've been here many times before...

>128 red_guy: Makes sense, will ignore from now on. And thanks for pointing that out, I should've realized.

Unhinged, is it? Now your argument has gone from bad to worse, and finally it concludes in baseless insults. But I say, well done! for confusing unhinged behavior with passion for a story and writer I’ve admired for MANY years. But you’re right, I guess as one of the three people amongst us who who have actually read Elfland’s daughter, and care about it enough to own 2 first editions of it in the original jacket (which costs $8,000+), I guess you can call me unhinged for being disappointed at the defacing of a 100 year old book that might have been better left alone by the stench of a modern tumblr artist.

This edition is not, and will not EVER be the definitive representation of this book. That will be my last comment on the matter (to your pleasure).

Good-bye.

>130 Alveric:

Good-bye.

Not wading into this morass, but I've always found it odd when I meet people who are into science fiction and fantasy, with its aliens and elves and shapeshifters, yet who have issues with embracing diversity in real life. It just seems dissonant to me.

>133 Shadekeep: I think it's less about diversity and more about having hi-fidelity to the original source material. So, when changes are made to vintage work adaptations that are not organic for the sake of diversity, it ruffles the feathers of fans who are very loyal to the original author's characters. But most sci-fi/fantasy books released over the past forty-plus years tend to have a diverse cast (especially in terms of race and gender), so it's become a bit of a straw man when it comes to modern fiction.

>133 Shadekeep: in this case, and many related ones, I think the diversity concern can be a bit of a red herring. It's the sanitized, elementary school feel of the style that doesn't work for the essence of Dunsany. There's no underlying feeling of danger or weirdness, such as would also be appropriate for something like the Grimms fairy tales.

Imagine, for example, Yoshitaka Amano as illustrator here, culture-bending the imagery into his dreamlike Japanese style. It would work wonderfully! The key for me is to be true to the essence of the author's vision.

Or even shifting the register somewhat darker, like Beksinsky (though I imagine that would be a bit more controversial, it at least wouldn't be the Hallmark Card style that Folio Society decided to greenlight).

This is also basically the same concern when staging a play; setting Shakespeare in non-Elizabethan contexts can be wonderful, but it can also be tricky to pull off without being contrived.

135

"It's the sanitized, elementary school feel of the style that doesn't work for the essence of Dunsany. There's no underlying feeling of danger or weirdness, such as would also be appropriate for something like the Grimms fairy tales."

Easton Press recently released a Grimms' Tales edition illustrated by Jason Mowry. He captured exactly what you describe - gorgeous.

>133 Shadekeep: Haha same - it's so absurd. A select group were going insane when Rings of Power cast non-white dwarves, elves and hobbits. I do have difficulty though when a company like Netflix makes a documentary/docudrama on Cleopatra and changes the main subjects race!

>137 Joshbooks1: At the risk of diving headfirst into Nerddom, Tolkien was very specific about the elves -- due to the light of Valinor, the elves had even lighter skin than Caucasians, so much so that they basically glowed, so the concept of elves with dark pigmentation is antithesis to the source material, which is why some of the book connoisseurs were a bit up-in-arms. Book purists were also upset at the inclusion of the Hobbits in Rings of Power because that was an invention of the show -- they were not included in the Second Age stories that the show is adapting. There were countless other adaptation "changes" that went against the grain of the books, but the media brushed them all off as "racist" despite them being highly legitimate complaints for anyone that's read the source material. Tolkien enthusiasts tend to be like "real" historians when it comes to the text, so pitchforks will be at the ready when the adaptations stray too far...

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as wcarter noted let's be respectful here.

>119 Alveric: Thank you for sharing her website. I personally like her work, although I also respect your opinion that it looks very much like "AI" -- and I don't disagree with that statement. I also fully agree with you that she makes "political" statements. Although I would say a lot her art is more "feminist" --



I personally am not bothered by what I have seen. That said, I also respect you and others who will pass on this.

>137 Joshbooks1: From what I read, many people (and we're not talking about right-wingers here) had "issues" with the Rings of Power for the fact that it was overly political, completely changed Tolkien's universe, had no likeable characters, the "plot" was terrible and predictable, and most importantly of all, it was BORING. I fully agree with the last statement, I was able to get through a few episodes before falling asleep.

I absolutely agree with you regarding this -- I do have difficulty though when a company like Netflix makes a documentary/docudrama on Cleopatra and changes the main subjects race! While of course Tolkien is a fantasy world, Rings of Power did change many of the characters races too, again, going off Tolkien's universe, so I feel that's a fair critique of the show.
Phew, anyway, Happy Friday all :)

>121 A.Godhelm: "They paint what the market demands, and hopefully have some left over for their personal projects at the end."

What the market demands? Or what the market gate-keepers demand?

I agree the illustrations are very generic fantasy but at this point I would expect that from Folio. Their choices these days are often safe middle-of-the-road pandering to the type of sci-fi fantasy fans who probably haven't heard of Dunsany but might respond to all of the standard genre tropes that would signal an opportunity to buy more of the same type of fantasy they already own.

A Dunsany I would have loved to see is something like 51 Tales with simple wood cut illustrations of the type seen in the recent Journal of the Plague Year prefacing each story and with a tasteful, classic binding. But realistically Folio is not the type of company to do something like that for an LE anymore.

>134 HonorWulf: >135 abysswalker: I wasn't really commenting on the art itself in this case, and actually I concur that someone with more of a vision towards the grotesque and unearthly would have been a better fit here. My comment was strictly about what I perceived as a dichotomous mindset among some fans. To confess, I was taken by surprise when I saw my first Black Vulcan on Star Trek, because I had always assumed that green blood resulted in olive skin tones. But in hindsight that's as narrow as thinking red blood always means pink people.

I'm not a fan of arbitrary revision, or of willfully deviating from the author's vision, or really of doing anything for a "just because" reason. But if changes are done well then I don't balk, either. That's just me, of course.

As for the artist, she should be judged here solely on the merits of her work, or the lack thereof. I don't see anything objectionable in it, but nor do I see anything outstanding. As I said before, it's very much in the current style that has wide favor on places like DeviantArt and ArtStation. It's just the latest mode, and as others have said, is probably intended to attract unfamiliar readers to the work by offering something they are comfortable with. Not my cuppa, but then I'm not the one making and selling it, either.

>142 Shadekeep: Just to be clear, I don't have strong feelings about the art either. It's not distinctive enough to make me clamor for the LE, but I'd probably go for a future SE to be able to add Dunsany to my vintage fantasy shelf...

>143 HonorWulf: Likewise. The art isn't great enough to make me buy the book just for it, but neither is it terrible enough to keep me from buying it. I'd be fine with an SE just to have a decent copy of the book itself. That was my attitude with Roadside Picnic as well.

I agree that Dillon's artwork is what I call "comfortably generic" -- she certainly has talent, but it looks very similar to dozens of other artists that paint digitally. As noted, it's "safe" which in some ways is unfortunate, at least for those of us that like what we arguably call "originality" in our art. She has also done art for Magic the Gathering, and quite honestly I have always loved the art in that card game. However, I think as MtG has gained tremendous popularity over the decades, it's unique style from the very first sets has been lost. Here is one of my favorite pieces done back in 1994 by Kaja Foglio -- her art along with her husband is so uniquely distinctive, and I greatly prefer it over digital.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaja_Foglio

Looking at the longlist for Folio's Illustration Award for 2023:

https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/blog/the-folio-book-illustration-award-2023-long...

Over half a dozen of the artists shown could have produced more interesting work for this edition (and would certainly have been cheaper). I don't understand why Folio attracts such creative talent to enter a competition each year , then never seems to use them for anything substantial.

>146 red_guy:

"I don't understand why Folio attracts such creative talent to enter a competition each year , then never seems to use them for anything substantial."

Very true.

I would guess the popularity of the artist would factor into this -- Dillon has over 100k followers across her various social media sites.

removed by me

>140 ultrarightist: A distinction with little difference as long as "the market" isn't revolting the diversity goals the publishers have set. You can debate the chicken and the egg on who's making these choices; the publishers (and other media outfits) insist it's on behalf of the market, others will disagree. But that's a political fight not suitable for this forum, and with no real winner, just opinion A and B. What's left is the fact of this demand, and that most artists will oblige what's requested to stay marketable.
>141 LeBacon: I think this is a very salient observation as well. FS is actively pursuing an audience that are exactly the people who enjoy the safe middle-of-the-road fantasy art. It's light and cute.
>145 astropi: I knew it looked familiar. It just screamed modern MTG.

>140 ultrarightist: Well, that's the key point, isn't it? Whether the market is revolting against the revolting diversity goals the gatekeepers have set. We're starting to see that with EVs and the emissions goals of the government gate-keepers. I hope to see that soon in the publishing world, if it is not already happening. I for one am doing my very small part. I spend far less on FS and trade books than I did previously, opting instead for expensive fine press editions and second-hand or e-books by cancelled or disfavored authors.

I must say that I used to buy more FS books because the illustrations fascinated me than I do these days. A lot of the art is pretty, but very bland and uninteresting. Nothing like Kate Baylay or (for other publishers) Jason Mowry, for example.

Hmm, a lot of noise and fury, I never knew Dunsany was quite so triggering for people! Do we have to turn absolutely everything into a culture war these days? Surely we can all accept that there are books out there which we do not want to own personally but which others might love.

Nor do I know who exactly 'the market' or its 'gatekeepers' are. I suspect it's basically 'them', the perpetrators of every conspiracy theory going. A nicely simplistic reduction of the chaos of modern life to a simple 'It's their fault' answer.

A boojum, in other words.

For myself, I hadn't heard of either Sime or Dillon and I haven't read this particular Dunsany tale so I am coming to this as a blank sheet, I guess.

I looked them both up, Sime is very appealing but, to my innocent eye, he does seem very similar to Kay Nielsen and Aubrey Beardsley. They were contemporaries, so that's probably not surprising. Was he regarded as particularly original in his day?

Dillon, similarly, seems to be in a similar style to other fantasy art I have seen but her art's certainly not horrible. I liked a lot of what I saw on her website. Is it especially individual? I wouldn't say that from what I've seen so far.

So, I guess Folio could have done a facsimile of the Sime version, which would be very nice, and I would probably buy that. Or they could support a living artist, who has received much recognition from her own community if the awards tally is any guide.

I'll finish by noting that we've only seen Dillon's art for the slipcase, book cover, endpapers, and a portion of the 'striking' print. As far as I'm aware, we know nothing of the internal art.

Perhaps she will surprise us all.

>153 Cat_of_Ulthar: Stop being so darned sensible! It's clearly not in keeping with the times. Pick a tribe, for crying out loud.

>153 Cat_of_Ulthar: What a great post.

“ Surely we can all accept that there are books out there which we do not want to own personally but which others might love.”

If that sentiment existed here, there would be half as much activity on this forum.

>154 coynedj: 🤣🤣🤣

>153 Cat_of_Ulthar: A boojum, in other words.

The word "boojum" has made it's way here to the USA, and actually has been around for a long time! If you ever visit the Smokey Mountains (highly highly recommended, they are gorgeous) --
https://www.nps.gov/grsm/index.htm
You can hear/read tales of the "Boojum"! I do wonder if the word predates "The Hunting of the Snark"?

Here's a painting of the Boojum by Cordon Bell, 1961.


ps I completely agree that Sidney Sime's work is in a similar style to Aubrey Beardsley -- which I personally adore. I would also add Harry Clarke, another contemporary of Sime, to the mix -- clearly that style was in vogue at the time.

Does anyone know what time Folio normally makes these releases available for purchase on the day in question?

>154 coynedj: Lol. I know, what was I thinking? ;-)

>157 astropi: 'I do wonder if the word predates "The Hunting of the Snark"?'

Interesting. I'd not heard that usage before.

I don't recall seeing Clarke's work before, either, but it's very beautiful. Thanks for that :-)

>160 Cat_of_Ulthar: There is a lovely edition of Poe’s Tales of Mystery and Imagination by FS with Harry Clarke’s illustrations.

>158 Honjo: I believe the Angry Planet LE was released at 9am EST so I'd probably check before, after, or around then since oddly, FS hasn't shared timing this time around.

>162 BooksFriendsNotFood: oddly, FS hasn't shared timing this time around.

They did. 2 pm British Summer Time. No idea what that translates to elsewhere.

>163 folio_books: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html is very useful in figuring the time around the world. :)

>164 AnnieMod:

Thanks, Annie.

>163 folio_books: Thanks so much for sharing this! The emails I received from FS and the book's page on the website only says "launches April 2" so I'm so glad to have the guesswork taken out of it. Luckily 2pm BST is exactly 9am EST. 👌

Its past 9am in London and ......................?
2pm London is 11pm in Australia 😢

>167 wcarter: I’m afraid 2pm London is currently midnight in Sydney

>168 DMulvee:
But I am in Brisbane, an hour earlier.

>169 wcarter:
Well I never realised that - for only 2 degrees of longitude

>169 wcarter: Fair enough, but you did write Australia rather than Brisbane in your comment, which is the reason why I responded

>170 affle:
The southern states of Australia have daylight saving, the northern ones do not, which accounts for the time difference.
Brisbane is the same distance from the Equator as Havana, the Canary Islands or Okinawa, so daylight saving makes less sense in a sub-tropical climate.

>172 wcarter:
Thank you, I am enlightened ;)

Just checked on the webpage and it says Out of Stock

And for a second I thought that it had flown out of the warehouse faster than Mort..!

It is now up on the FS website.

https://www.foliosociety.com/row/the-king-of-elfland-s-daughter.html

Does anyone know if an earlier purchase increases the likelyhood of a low edition number?

>172 wcarter: not having daylight savings might make sense for Normanton on the Gulf of Carpentaria in the NW of Queensland, but I would argue that the argument is less compelling in Brisbane when it gets light at half past four and dark at half past six at midsummer.

I say that as an ex Scot who misses the 10pm summer evening (but not the midges!)

Some of the art is okay. They posted new examples of it.

It still looks very basic to me. Completely uninspiring.

>178 Alveric: They really should have led with some of those other interior pieces. Some are quite nice.

I just did my duty as a lifelong fan of Dunsany and an owner of 2 the impossible to find 1st fine elflands. Perhaps I will be surprised when I receive the book. Anyway, it will go on the Dunsany shelf. At least they gave elfland more exposure.

>176 Honjo: This is anecdotal, but I have found recently that ordering early does not guarantee a low number when the time of the LE release is publicized - perhaps too many orders coming in at once? On the other hand when the release is a “surprise” then the numbers do seem to correspond to the time the order was placed. I have emailed Folio about it and they say that numbers are assigned as the order comes in, but from my personal experience I don’t find that to be true in the situation of a preannounced time for release. Maybe others have different experiences.

It's a bit of a mixed bag for me. I snapped up the book because I don't expect anyone else to release another edition anytime soon, but I admit I'm not too keen on the artwork. Most of the illustrations are decent, albeit very uninspired, but that two-page spread was quite poor, in my opinion. It looks like concept art for a cancelled indie videogame.

On the other hand, the binding and slipcase looked much nicer in the video than in the promotional images. I paid for Next Day delivery, so hopefully it will arrive no later than Thursday.

Unfortunately the artwork doesn't indicate this is anything other than a bog-standard fantasy novel, which it's not. I do like the endpapers, but that's about the extent of it. Might pick up the eventual SE just to have the book in a fresh edition, but otherwise a pass for me.

Meanwhile, I'll keep hoping some ambitious quality press brings out all of Zelazny's Amber novels...

Over 100 already sold, if the "add to basket" trick is still reliable.

>184 Shadekeep: My thoughts as well

>184 Shadekeep: I hope there is an SE as I would like a nice edition of it. I agree with you about the artwork now that I have seen all of it. It's nice but I think they could of done something special that would capture more of the essence of the story. It is as you say "bog-standard fantasy" art. I think it is overpriced for what you get but it will probably sell out. I would probably still pick it up in the unlikely event of a half price sale though.

The more I look at the illustrations, the more I'm pleased with them. I think the frontispiece looks wonderful --



and the illustrations throughout are also excellent --



Again, they're what I would say is in the style of good Magic the Gathering cards, and frankly, that seems to work well here :)

Personally, my complaints are not the art style nor overall quality of the book. They are what I've been complaining about for a long time --

1)The USA tax -- North American citizens are paying an extra 20% ($565 dollars + shipping). The Folio Society has never offered an explanation for this other than a shoulder shrug.

2)If we do have a standard edition, what's the point of this limited edition? Again, don't get me wrong, it's lovely. HOWEVER, if I can pay 1/5 the price and I get the same illustrations, I would rather have that than a few prints I'll never frame. If this was letterpress printed I would have already ordered, but, it's not. The artist's signature is always nice, but not something that alone is worth hundreds more. Likewise, the quarter-bound leather is nice, but again not worth hundreds of dollars more.

>188 astropi: Those factors are always an issue for me as well with regards to FS LEs. I detest the "American gratuity" and it stops me from making many regular purchases there, too. And the LEs need to be really special for me to justify the price. Better paper and binding are nice but typically don't justify the price alone. Prints and signatures are of very little value to me. The LE needs to be letterpress, or unique presented, or have something to truly distinguish it. I don't expect the SE of this to be markedly inferior to the LE, certainly not at the scale of the probable price differential, thus I'll be quite contented with an SE here.

There appears to be 350 left. It actually sold quite fast for such an unknown book. Didn’t lord of the rings sell out in 1 second?

>189 Shadekeep: Completely agree.

>190 Alveric: I would not call it "unknown" -- although certainly far from the fame of Lord of the Rings, which everyone knew was going to be an instant sellout.

>191 astropi:

Ask anyone what the king of elflands daughter is and they will probably look at you strange. We are living in 2024. I think the last time elfland was relevant was in 1970

Torn about this LE…I want a nice copy of the book, but never been someone who thought LEs were worth it. If I thought there would be an SE, I would definitely wait, but I think for this title, it’s a toss up.

>193 RRCBS: It's a title old enough they won't have to pay for rights and they are in a never-ending quest to capture the fantasy crowd so I would bet a SE is very likely.

>192 Alveric: I would agree with >191 astropi:. It’s not a Lord of the Rings phenomenon but it does have a fan base. Dunsany may not have the mass appeal like some other authors but he is still being published. For example Gollancz have been selling both The King of Elfland’s Daughter and Time and the Gods in paperback for a fair few years now. Not exactly hard to find.

It may not be exactly what I would look for in this edition but I’m glad FS are doing it.

>195 assemblyman:

I’m one of those Dunsany cultists lol

>192 Alveric: I think the last time elfland was relevant was in 1970

The King of Elfland’s Daughter is absolutely still relevant and important today. It's certainly not popular like some other works, but per Wikipedia:

The King of Elfland's Daughter is a 1924 fantasy novel by Anglo-Irish writer Lord Dunsany. It is widely recognized as one of the most influential and acclaimed works in all of fantasy literature.

>197 astropi:
I meant to say it is not relevant to the public. Dunsany himself had fallen into obscurity. Elfland has not been republished since 1977. This is not a fault of the work. It’s just the age and the lack of republished works. Nearly all of Dunsany’s bibliography consists of first editions.

>190 Alveric: 1 second? I think it was a few days. It was a very fast sell for an edition that expensive.

>198 Alveric: Oh, for sure. It's unfortunate Dunsany is not nearly as well known as he should be. That said, I feel like Lovecraft similarly had a "cult following" for around a century and was relatively "obscure" in the general public until the past couple of decades where there has been what I would describe as a resurgence in his popularity thanks to Hollywood, video games, table-top games, and much more. Who knows, Dunsany may have a similar renaissance one day :)

I suspect the Gaiman (and, to a lesser extent, Dillon) factor are driving demand for this particular book. I'm hoping it sells out fast, so that we can get an SE next year ;)

>49 Alveric:, Hi everyone, I am Thierry Fraysse, I am about to publish a new French edition of The King of Elfland's Daughter for the 100th years of the book and I'd like to include the Sime frontispiece to my forthcoming edition. Alveric, it seems you own 2 of the first edition of this book :)
Would it be possible for you to take a high quality photo of "The Hunting of the Unicorn" for my edition please ?

Here is my website: https://www.editions-callidor.com/age-dor
And my email address: editions.callidor@gmail.com

Please let me know!

>55 Vaudois:, Hi, I would be very interested if you could take high quality photos of your Gods of Pegana book!
Do you think it would be possible?

>199 SDB2012:
Lord of the Rings LE sold out in 34 hours and 15 minutes.

>202 Thierry.Frs:
Please send a Personal message to Alveric and others to continue this discussion. Do not continue in open forum.
To send a Personal Message click on the poster's name beside the post number, then you will see "Message" in a box on the right side of the screen. Click on this and then write message.

>202 Thierry.Frs:
Nvm delete this post let’s talk in PM

>201 HonorWulf: The Gaiman foreword seems to be from an existing foreword dated 1998 as shown in the video so it isn’t exclusive to this edition.

There is 345 left for sale. Just updating.

>207 assemblyman: Yes, it's been in multiple editions since the 1999 Del Rey paperback, but never in anything like a Folio. The work, itself, is Gaiman's inspiration for his Stardust novel and he's talked it up a lot over the years. Smart move by Folio to package it up with Julie Dillon, who is also a frequent Gaiman collaborator. About the only thing holding it back is that $565 USD price -- $395 USD would have been a lot more tempting to me.

Crikey. Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning; now that is fast.

>210 Honjo: what specific time did you order yours? I haven’t seen anything

>211 Alveric: About 13:45. It actually went live a bit early. I would have made the purchase in about ten seconds, if it wasn't for my bank demanding I approve in the app, which failed for some reason, requiring a text instead.

>212 Honjo:
Same time as me. Weird! Wonder when I will get a message ?

Did you pay for next day delivery? They offered two options. I believe Folio state that if you make your order before 14:00, they ship the same day.

I chose the $38 shipping and handling fee. Not sure what that was I think it was the only one available other than standard. My order says “processing”. It went through at 06:44:30 according to the email. Well I live in the US that’s probably an issue.

I'm sure that's all it is then. I imagine US orders just take a bit more time to process. I'm a UK customer only a few hours drive from Folio headquarters.

>216 Honjo:
Cool. Hope you share photos with us!

>217 Alveric: I'll be sure to do that first chance I get today.

>218 Honjo:

I’m hoping we got a single digit number but I’m not sure. It was a ridiculously strange release time.

So, edition number 09 has arrived! I confess that the art is better on the page than it appeared on the site. It is quite a beautiful book to hold in person. I think it would have looked better if it was fullly leather bound, and I'm disappointed by a lack of ornamentation for the chapter openers, but I'm still thrilled to have such a fine book in my collection. It's currently my only Folio.

I've provided a few images if anyone is interested.

https://i.ibb.co/9GMvwjR/P1010028.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/rdNyYBv/P1010029.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/RHnKdrB/P1010030.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WVP96q3/P1010026.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/yy3QCpS/P1010032.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/g6H1d7q/P1010035.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/VtsRsXM/P1010036.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Dg1mPKt/P1010040.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/S7XFSRD/P1010042.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3WQ8gGZ/P1010043.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/q5ZmMrL/P1010046.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/sJhVKqw/P1010050.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WBvqjBw/P1010053.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/L0Jjxq7/P1010054.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/xmn77tg/P1010055.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/x1j1Ryk/P1010056.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/R7P6qMZ/P1010058.jpg

>220 Honjo:
Thanks for sharing the photos with us!

>220 Honjo: Congrats on your first Folio. Very nice photos.

>220 Honjo: Thank you for sharing your photos and congratulations on acquiring your first Folio (with such a low number)!

>220 Honjo: Thank you for the photos! (I am also rather envious of your Conan collection!)

>220 Honjo:

Thank you for the photos!

>220 Honjo: Great photos, looks better than the promo material on the site.

>224 Andrew14: Thanks. I just wish I had the leather bound set. But those fetch a high price now. The Folio Society book I want most of all is the Wanderer, illustrated by Alan Lee (just saw him in the pub last night, actually), but I can't afford those second hand prices.

There is 280 left for sale

It’s a great looking book but the tacky way they penned that number and their signatures leaves a lot to be desired. They could have done it with something high quality. It’s nothing like the original (which was done with a quill pen). Otherwise it’s a good looking book and I’m glad they put it out.

>229 Alveric: Yeah, I agree they could have made a few small adjustments that would have drastically improved the overall impression of the book. The slipcase is beautiful - the silver catches the light and looks really good in-hand. I don't like the artist's work generally, but the illustrations are also better on the page than I expected. I suppose my biggest complaint is just the book cover itself; those silver blocked designs on fabric just do nothing for me. I would have much preferred a simple title or logo on leather.

>230 Honjo: or a nice half binding with some striking marbled or paste paper over the boards.

>220 Honjo: 'I confess that the art is better on the page than it appeared on the site. It is quite a beautiful book to hold in person.'

>226 A.Godhelm: 'Great photos, looks better than the promo material on the site.'

Those are not unusual reactions; Folio's own photos often fail to do the books justice and they certainly give you little sense of the experience of holding the real book.

Looking forward to receiving my copy :-)

>161 assemblyman: 'There is a lovely edition of Poe’s Tales of Mystery and Imagination by FS with Harry Clarke’s illustrations.'

Thank you for reminding me of that. I actually have a copy but had completely forgotten who the illustrator was. Just goes to show (yet again) that I shouldn't trust to memory!

I know what my bedtime reading is going to be for the next few nights, though :-)

>161 assemblyman:
>233 Cat_of_Ulthar:

Having put the new LE down for a few moments I eagerly sought out my copy of Poe's Tales. Unfortunately it's the 1957 edition with monotypes by Michael Ayrton who, to be fair, is no slouch himself. But I'd have liked to have found out what Harry Clarke can do.

>234 folio_books: Here is a few samples from it.

>233 Cat_of_Ulthar: and >234 folio_books: You might want to check out the Tartarus Press edition of Poe's tales, which includes the Harry Clarke illustrations. I think Tartarus Press editions are roughly equivalent in quality to FS standard editions.

>233 Cat_of_Ulthar:. >234 folio_books:
Then there is this review https://www.librarything.com/topic/344189

>235 assemblyman:

That's gorgeous work.

>234 folio_books: Don't forget to check out Rackham's illustrations for Poe's Tales of Mystery and Imagination published by George G. Harrap.

Some posts to whet your appetite...

Poe Poe Poe: https://www.librarything.com/topic/311649
Alternatives to Thornwillow Press: https://www.librarything.com/topic/319221#7134026
TGIPPB #3: https://www.librarything.com/topic/305899

There are two copies of the print inside the folder accompanying my book. Anyone got an empty folder!

>235 assemblyman: Beautiful work! One of Clarke's Poe pieces was also used in cut-up format for No Reply's The Masque of the Red Death.

I received copy #67. Ordered it at 5:44. I think that’s proof that order # has nothing to do with copy #

>242 Alveric: One guy on Facebook ordered two minutes before me but got #17. Ordering earlier seems to increase the likelyhood of a low number, but it doesn't appear to directly correlate. The first to order won't necessarily get #1, it seems.

>243 Honjo:
Well, I would have liked to get #63 to go with one of my first edition Elflands. That would have been funny. got close!

The website says the book is 11½˝ x 8", but photos I've seen make it look smaller than that to my eye. Out of curiosity, does anyone with a copy and tape measure want to check actual page size?

>245 EdmundRodriguez:
It’s actually quite large. Also:
“I'm sorry to hear of your disappointment at the limitation number you received. When the books went live, the first 100 copies sold very quickly and all books were processed on a first come first serve basis. This couldn't have been predicted I'm afraid. I do hope that you enjoy the book, it's a truly beautiful edition - I'm glad it's gone to a loving home.”

>243 Honjo: I suppose it also partly depends on how they pick & pack the books. If they have 5 people packing do they go to a shelf & pick a copy off the shelf, or for new LE releases where they know there will be a mini-rush when the books go live does each packer have a small pile of books ready to go & the number you get may depend on what numbers the person packing your order has in their pile ? If your order goes to packer 5 & they have numbers 81-100 in their pile then theres no way you could get a lower number than that no matter how early you order.

>247 antinous_in_london: This is a guess - Considering how quickly people report receiving their books and since they know there will be a mini rush, I suspect they may have individual copies boxed and ready for a shipping label when orders open. They may not actually be seeing which number they are sending since it's boxed already.

Numbering is completely arbitrary. Do people really think that the first copy printed is the first copy enumerated? Unless there are sub-limitations within the edition, the number indicates nothing more than that the copy is genuine and within the limitation. Much ado about nothing.

>249 ultrarightist:

Some people just like a low number. Nothing wrong with that. I wanted a single digit.

>250 Alveric: What makes a lower number more appealing than or preferable to a higher number?

>248 LeBacon: A label with the book title & limitation number is usually stuck to the outside of the box housing the LE so they would generally be able to see the number they are sticking the shipping label onto. Most LE’s are already pre-packed in bespoke boxes with the limitation label on the outside, though some recent titles (like the Thomas Hardy Poems LE) were not boxed & just had the limitation number stuck onto the paper wrapper & when they were picked they were just put into a standard shipping box. If this volume was shipped like the Thomas Hardy then it’s possible the limitation wouldn’t be visible on the outer box.

>245 EdmundRodriguez:

Someone on Facebook said it's actually ~10" tall. I think folio may have accidentally included the size of Origin of Species in its description...

>245 EdmundRodriguez:

I have measured the book. It's 10", 10.5" in the slip case.

>241 Shadekeep: Yes I saw that in the fine press forum. No Reply Press does beautiful work.

>251 ultrarightist: Some people like chocolate cake and others don’t; tell us which group is wrong?

>256 What_What: Neither. I'm genuinely curious as to why it is so important to some, and why a lower number is preferable to a higher number.

removed by me

>258 Alveric: very interesting, thank you. Ming Manor is about a 30 minute drive from me, I love to walk around Palos Verdes, this gives another meaning to my walks.

>259 Hamwick:

you're welcome. I want to add that this letter is dated just six months before Lord Dunsany passed away, and the signing of this book and the photo is probably one of his last.

>258 Alveric: So.. how big is your Dunsany collection? Is it complete?

Amazing how long he lived. Had a namecheck in Macbeth.

>258 Alveric: That is very special, indeed. Thank you for sharing that. I understand the additional value of the example you gave, based on special provenance and association with the author. I, too, would ascribe additional value to such copies. But, is the specialness based on the number, or the provenance? What specialness or additional value is there to the lower numbers of the FS Elfland edition? There can obviously be no association with the author. The contents and production values of the lower numbers are exactly the same as the higher numbers. Whence then the perceived additional value of the lower numbers? Is it an atavistic arithmancy?

>257 ultrarightist: Because #1 is associated with being "first", much like in a race, competition, etc. Of course book numbers have nothing to do with competition, but people like to say "I have the very first copy of this limited edition!" and so on. It's part of the psychology of collecting :)

>253 EdmundRodriguez: >254 bookfair_e: I emailed FS Customer services regarding this and they have come back to say that the measurements stated on the website are wrong and that they will be amending them.

>263 ultrarightist:

If my memory is not at fault (big if!), somebody said in a previous thread that, when LEs are printed letterpress, the plates wear with use so lower-numbered copies might have more sharply-defined type.

That does not apply to recent Folio LEs so in their case, as >264 astropi: suggests, the premium placed on low numbers is mostly psychological. I don't place a high value on getting a particular number and yet, I must admit, if I got number 1, I would be pretty chuffed :-)

>265 assemblyman:

Folio have now updated the web page.

>264 astropi: Exactly - it's psychological, with a partial cognitive hangover effect per >266 Cat_of_Ulthar:

>266 Cat_of_Ulthar: Yes, I've heard that, too, and there is probably some truth to it. Even in the case of a letterpress limited edition, the psychological preference assumes that the copies are enumerated in the sequence that they are printed, which is probably an unwarranted assumption, especially when the limitation page is sent away separately for signing and then bound into the book afterward.

The only value the limitation number provides on its own is identification and authentication, for which all numbers within the limitation are equally valuable. Any additional assigned value is purely associative, especially for a LE printed offset.

>268 ultrarightist:
Ah, but my own preference for low numbers is strictly commercial, a base, profiteering preference of the greatest rationality, grounded in the psychological weakness and cognitive hangovers of others!

Yes it’s extremely disappointing that the numbered and signatures are on a slipped in paper that is barely attached to the book. That was EXTREMELY lazy. Lord

>268 ultrarightist: I hate to break this to you but most of economics is psychological. That's humans for you.

As for The only value the limitation number provides on its own is identification and authentication, for which all numbers within the limitation are equally valuable., that's not for you to decide. If more potentials buyers consider number '1' is more valuable than the rest then it is. The market decides.

There's been a lot of research into collecting -- primarily from a "financial gain" perspective -- "fine art", coins, stamps, etc are all prime examples of what people collect with the notion that it will only appreciate in value. Books do appreciate in value too, and even though the general advice is "don't collect books because of money, collect because you love it!" I feel that it's a little disingenuous. For instance, if you knew that the next book by your favorite fine press was going to depreciate in value, you would probably wait and purchase it on the second-hand market. However, the fear of missing out (FOMO) as well as realization that if you do find it on the second-hand market it will likely be more expensive, perhaps prohibitively so, makes for a dynamic marketplace. Here's a research article on "set completion" --
The model presented in this study explains how set completion motivates collecting behavior, which sheds light on collecting for both financial and nonfinancial reasons.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167487007000682
Interesting read if you enjoy these things! I will say, I have not actually found an article that explores the psychology of why copy #1 is highly desired -- and I suspect because that is quite a niche "thing" in a niche market. However, I stand by what I said earlier -- it has to do with the fact that all your life you hear things such as "We're #1! We're the best!" and so naturally we associate "#1" with being first and foremost -- ie the best. Again, in reality we all know the limitation number does not matter in most every way. BUT, as Levin40 noted, people will pay a premium for copy #1 so there you have my two and a half cents :)

>271 Levin40: Yes, I'm aware that economics contains a large dose of psychology, or rather praxeology based on psychology, i.e. the rationality and efficacy of means to achieve ends.

>272 astropi: I think you're right about the psychology of being #1. But that's undemocratic, is it not? Shouldn't the higher numbers be more desirable, not for any undemocratic qualitative reason, but for democratic quantitative reasons? Numerical might makes right? ;-)

The only instance where I personally would ascribe higher value to a particular number - ceteris paribus - is #42 of a limited edition of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

>272 astropi: there is actually research on exactly this topic:

Smith, R. K., Newman, G. E., & Dhar, R. (2016). Closer to the creator: Temporal contagion explains the preference for earlier serial numbers. Journal of Consumer Research, 42(5), 653-668.

I wouldn't consider this a complete explanation. Most social phenomena are determined by multiple factors. But this is probably one process at work.

Article abstract:

Consumers demonstrate a robust preference for items with earlier serial numbers (e.g., No. 3/100) over otherwise identical items with later serial numbers (e.g., No. 97/100) in a limited edition set. This preference arises from the perception that items with earlier serial numbers are temporally closer to the origin (e.g., the designer or artist who produced it). In turn, beliefs in contagion (the notion that objects may acquire a special essence from their past) lead consumers to view these items as possessing more of a valued essence. Using an archival data set and five lab experiments, the authors find the preference for items with earlier serial numbers holds across multiple consumer domains including recorded music, art, and apparel. Further, this preference appears to be independent from inferences about the quality of the item, salience of the number, or beliefs about market value. Finally, when serial numbers no longer reflect beliefs about proximity to the origin, the preference for items with earlier serial numbers is attenuated. The authors conclude by demonstrating boundary conditions of this preference in the context of common marketing practices.

I have considered that if I were to ever start my own press (a very big if), that I should call it the Ångstrom Press. Within an edition, any images that require multiple color plates would have the differences in registration measured (in the units of angstroms) and the worst measurement within a book would be taken to be its number.

Clearly numbering would not be sequential and the likelihood of two books yielding the same measurement should be so unlikely that it's not worth caring about.

However, for collectors who want and care about a lower number, they would actually be able to claim that their lower-numbered books are better in some way than others with higher numbers; they would have more precise registration.

An edition numbered as #1, representing each color plate being at worst 1Å misaligned from perfect, surely wouldn't exist.

--- --- ---

My two cents is that I'd much rather have a lovely book that is well made, without corrigenda, having some arbitrary limitation number rather than having something error-riddled, but is #1.

>275 abysswalker: Very cool, thanks for the reference :)
This preference arises from the perception that items with earlier serial numbers are temporally closer to the origin
What I said was "#1 is associated with being first" which I think is along the lines of what they note -- it all makes sense, and also explains why in comic books the books that are most sought-after are always "the FIRST appearance of..."

>276 Tuna_Melon: the problem with this approach is that one cannot easily prove the limitation of the edition, i.e., it would be very easy for you to cheat this way and print 1000 books, claiming a limitation of 500 say.

>278 filox:
I have a "limited edition" book that very clearly states that it is number 759 in an edition of 700!?

>279 wcarter: A homeopathy book? The more the number exceeds the maximum printed, the rarer it becomes!

>279 wcarter: It is not unheard of for a publisher to have a limitation number that is higher than the number of books printed. A publisher may use this scheme to accommodate subscribers that have a higher limitation number from earlier books that had a larger release. The LEC did this when its subscribers dropped substantially. The Folio Society did it for the Letterpress Shakespeare.

>279 wcarter: >281 kdweber: It may also be a double-limitation run: one format/edition which runs from 1 to 100 and another from 101 to 800 for example. An edition of 700 does not necessarily mean "1-700".

I am pretty sure I have one of those somewhere around the house (although the limitation page said something about the schema (which is how I knew they numbered that way).

>278 filox:
It's a fair point, but I'd like to believe that there is some integrity insofar as a press declaring a limitation run can be believed. >279 wcarter:'s comment suggests otherwise? I envisioned a colophon with something along the lines of:

"This edition consists of 50 copies, numbered according to registration offset, ranging from 179,463 Å to 287,958 Å. This copy is number 195,302.

This could be viewed in the same light as some limitation described as the following:

"This edition consists of 48 copies, lettered capital "A" through "Z" and lowercase "a" through "z". Note that the uppercase letters "I" and "O" along with lowercase letters "l" and "o" have been skipped due to potential confusion with each other or the numerals "1" and "0".

Note: With all the Magic: The Gathering references in this thread, I'll mention that for the second blockquote I've tapped into the MTG Comprehensive Rules to draw the main inspiration for removing certain letters due to potential confusion.

The assigned number is really just a variable. Often we get sequential numbers. Sometimes we get letters. Sometimes they're in sequential order.

I can appreciate everyone's comments about valuing the lower limitation. I suppose it would be neat, but not something I'd go out of my way to spend extra money on.

As a separate thought, if there weren't any additional copies beyond the limitation that are given away gratis by the publisher, then any free copies to friends and family would be included in the limitation. In that scenario, I would assume that it might be more likely that the lowest numbers are the ones that are gifted. I would also assume that those lower numbers could hold more sentimental value to a future collector, having come from someone more closely related to the proprietor.

>283 Tuna_Melon:
In the days when the Gavron Family owned the Folio Society, copy number one of every limited edition went to them. Now that the FS is owned by its employees, LE No.1 is available to the average purchaser, which enabled folio_books to get his copy.

I have one or two (quite old) limited editions with a blank where the number should be, presumably spare copies originally retained by the publisher. They didn't appear to be any cheaper than others with a number and I'm not at all bothered by the lack. One of these is a 19-volume set of Samuel Richardson from 1902. I replaced one volume, which was slightly below par, with an odd copy I was able to find on the market. That too was unnumbered. And I see that of the two complete sets currently on AbeBooks, the better and much more expensive one is also without a number. Does anyone have any views on these - market forces, psychology, or otherwise?

>274 ultrarightist: Someone paid $6m on auction for the first appearance of Superman. You should let them know they overpaid, the cover price may have been closer to 25 cents!

25 cents.
Another 4 years of 3.5% monthly inflation and it’s gonna cost 35 cents! Backbreaker

>286 What_What: Retail price ("cover price" for a comic book) is NOT the same thing as value put on a limitation number. For instance, if you were purchasing a limited edition of The Shining, you would certainly pay a premium to have limitation #237. But, if you were around in 1938 to purchase Action Comics #1, you would have paid ten cents for a copy, all 200,000 copies were the exact same price.

>288 astropi: I know, I’m just pulling your leg.